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	<title>Comments on: The Mother-Priest</title>
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	<link>http://www.seagullfountain.com/2012/09/19/i-make-babies-whats-your-superpower/</link>
	<description>online mother</description>
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		<title>By: Shannon</title>
		<link>http://www.seagullfountain.com/2012/09/19/i-make-babies-whats-your-superpower/comment-page-1/#comment-92745</link>
		<dc:creator>Shannon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2012 02:54:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seagullfountain.com/?p=5660#comment-92745</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[yes!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yes!</p>
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		<title>By: Shannon</title>
		<link>http://www.seagullfountain.com/2012/09/19/i-make-babies-whats-your-superpower/comment-page-1/#comment-92744</link>
		<dc:creator>Shannon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2012 02:54:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seagullfountain.com/?p=5660#comment-92744</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for pointing that out about Eve -- I had never thought of that. (And I&#039;ve been thinking about Eve a lot lately.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for pointing that out about Eve &#8212; I had never thought of that. (And I&#8217;ve been thinking about Eve a lot lately.)</p>
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		<title>By: Shannon</title>
		<link>http://www.seagullfountain.com/2012/09/19/i-make-babies-whats-your-superpower/comment-page-1/#comment-92743</link>
		<dc:creator>Shannon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2012 02:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seagullfountain.com/?p=5660#comment-92743</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for your thoughts, Hannah. It&#039;s interesting -- I attended a conference on Saturday where the idea of complementarianism (or &quot;separate but equal&quot; or going even further back &quot;separate spheres&quot;) was discussed at length. One thing Valerie Hudson (the Two Trees metaphor) and many other recent women apologist-scholars do well is both acknowledge the pain/confusion/sadness that patriarchy/male-only ordination causes many women, and attempt to assuage that pain by filling in the gaps in our knowledge with beautiful imagery. At the end of the day, though, those metaphors are not doctrinal, and can be seen as comparable to convoluted explanations for why blacks should be slaves, etc. Even more troubling to me is that even if a separate but equal doctrine were theoretically possibly, in reality, separate but equal has never been equal. 

(your points on human fallibility are so apt. I heard this thing about how Catholics profess to believe in papal infallibility, and yet act as if they don&#039;t (for e.g., so many use birth control despite admonition against it. And Mormon profess to not believe in prophetic infallibility (we have so many conditions that must be met for something to be &quot;doctrine,&quot; and yet we often act as if we do believe in even local-authority infallibility, which is the only reason we could get mad when they (we) show how human we all are)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your thoughts, Hannah. It&#8217;s interesting &#8212; I attended a conference on Saturday where the idea of complementarianism (or &#8220;separate but equal&#8221; or going even further back &#8220;separate spheres&#8221;) was discussed at length. One thing Valerie Hudson (the Two Trees metaphor) and many other recent women apologist-scholars do well is both acknowledge the pain/confusion/sadness that patriarchy/male-only ordination causes many women, and attempt to assuage that pain by filling in the gaps in our knowledge with beautiful imagery. At the end of the day, though, those metaphors are not doctrinal, and can be seen as comparable to convoluted explanations for why blacks should be slaves, etc. Even more troubling to me is that even if a separate but equal doctrine were theoretically possibly, in reality, separate but equal has never been equal. </p>
<p>(your points on human fallibility are so apt. I heard this thing about how Catholics profess to believe in papal infallibility, and yet act as if they don&#8217;t (for e.g., so many use birth control despite admonition against it. And Mormon profess to not believe in prophetic infallibility (we have so many conditions that must be met for something to be &#8220;doctrine,&#8221; and yet we often act as if we do believe in even local-authority infallibility, which is the only reason we could get mad when they (we) show how human we all are)</p>
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		<title>By: Hannah</title>
		<link>http://www.seagullfountain.com/2012/09/19/i-make-babies-whats-your-superpower/comment-page-1/#comment-92737</link>
		<dc:creator>Hannah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2012 13:52:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seagullfountain.com/?p=5660#comment-92737</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve been thinking a little about your questions. I don&#039;t remember where I found this post (maybe from your blog?) but I like her reasoning.
http://empoweringldswomen.blogspot.com/2012/09/motherhood-is-equivalent-of-priesthood.html

I also have been liking http://womeninthescriptures.blogspot.com/  by Heather Farrell she has a post called &quot;Two Trees&quot; (or Two Veils) that I liked a lot. It&#039;s basically that women bring people into this world and men are responsible for bringing people safely back to our Heavenly world. Equal but separate responsibilities. 

I also feel like we need to remember that we have a past that we don&#039;t remember and perhaps women played a more authoritative role there. 

One last thought. People in the church (your primary chorister?) are not perfect. We are all in church to get help, and to be forgiven.

Hope you get some answers to your questions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been thinking a little about your questions. I don&#8217;t remember where I found this post (maybe from your blog?) but I like her reasoning.<br />
<a href="http://empoweringldswomen.blogspot.com/2012/09/motherhood-is-equivalent-of-priesthood.html" rel="nofollow">http://empoweringldswomen.blogspot.com/2012/09/motherhood-is-equivalent-of-priesthood.html</a></p>
<p>I also have been liking <a href="http://womeninthescriptures.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://womeninthescriptures.blogspot.com/</a>  by Heather Farrell she has a post called &#8220;Two Trees&#8221; (or Two Veils) that I liked a lot. It&#8217;s basically that women bring people into this world and men are responsible for bringing people safely back to our Heavenly world. Equal but separate responsibilities. </p>
<p>I also feel like we need to remember that we have a past that we don&#8217;t remember and perhaps women played a more authoritative role there. </p>
<p>One last thought. People in the church (your primary chorister?) are not perfect. We are all in church to get help, and to be forgiven.</p>
<p>Hope you get some answers to your questions.</p>
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		<title>By: karina</title>
		<link>http://www.seagullfountain.com/2012/09/19/i-make-babies-whats-your-superpower/comment-page-1/#comment-92735</link>
		<dc:creator>karina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2012 15:33:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seagullfountain.com/?p=5660#comment-92735</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think that women have an intrinsic value just because they are women. I don&#039;t agree that the value of a woman is due to the fact that most women are capable of bearing children. Eve was called the mother of all living in the Garden even before she was capable of bearing children. All women have the calling to be mothers in Israel even if they will never physically bear children in this life. And I do believe that the power of a righteous woman&#039;s prayer is capable of working miracles - I know that through personal experiences. 

Sorry this comment is so long - this is a topic that I think about ALL of the time. I feel sad that so many think (whether consciously or subconsciously) that women are inferior beings. I was in a meeting a few months ago (not in Utah) where the Stake President and his wife taught us that the priesthood is in place in order to support women in their role as nurturers. Not the other way around, like so often happens.  I&#039;ve thought a lot about that since and have realized that our gospel is clear, it&#039;s the culture in the church that has me in a tizzy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that women have an intrinsic value just because they are women. I don&#8217;t agree that the value of a woman is due to the fact that most women are capable of bearing children. Eve was called the mother of all living in the Garden even before she was capable of bearing children. All women have the calling to be mothers in Israel even if they will never physically bear children in this life. And I do believe that the power of a righteous woman&#8217;s prayer is capable of working miracles &#8211; I know that through personal experiences. </p>
<p>Sorry this comment is so long &#8211; this is a topic that I think about ALL of the time. I feel sad that so many think (whether consciously or subconsciously) that women are inferior beings. I was in a meeting a few months ago (not in Utah) where the Stake President and his wife taught us that the priesthood is in place in order to support women in their role as nurturers. Not the other way around, like so often happens.  I&#8217;ve thought a lot about that since and have realized that our gospel is clear, it&#8217;s the culture in the church that has me in a tizzy.</p>
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		<title>By: Marcy</title>
		<link>http://www.seagullfountain.com/2012/09/19/i-make-babies-whats-your-superpower/comment-page-1/#comment-92734</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2012 14:45:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.seagullfountain.com/?p=5660#comment-92734</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So, I didn&#039;t read those links, but isn&#039;t it obvious that the Priesthood for men/motherhood for women comparison doesn&#039;t work simply because any worthy man can hold the Priesthood (whether single or married), while not every worthy woman can have a child? But, I think that&#039;s what you were saying in your last paragraph?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, I didn&#8217;t read those links, but isn&#8217;t it obvious that the Priesthood for men/motherhood for women comparison doesn&#8217;t work simply because any worthy man can hold the Priesthood (whether single or married), while not every worthy woman can have a child? But, I think that&#8217;s what you were saying in your last paragraph?</p>
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