A couple weeks ago the Primary President pulled me out of my Sunbeam class to talk about Avery. It had been reported to her that Avery does not sit like a lady in class, and the boys are commenting on it. I will note first that my daughters dress even more modestly than I did when I was their age (and my mother was a STICKLER on modesty), and that the particular skirt Avery was wearing that day reached an inch or so below her knee and was not tight, but yeah, she sits with her knees far apart, in a fairly slouchy manner. Avery has two male teachers; the one who did the reporting is a very nice childless man who probably felt awkward about talking directly to her but wanted to fix things. (When this happens in Sunbeams, I just tell the girls to pull their skirts down. Sometimes I say that ten times in twenty minutes.)
On our walk home from church I reported the conversation to my sensitive ten-year old and told her she had four options: 1) continue as she is, and realize that boys talk about things like underwear when it’s visible (and probably even when it’s not), 2) wear leggings/bloomers/shorts, 3) sit “like a lady,” or 4) go shopping for some nice trousers to wear.
Giving her that fourth option was a little like reverse psychology, hoping she wouldn’t go for it or balk at the other choices if she knew that (as far as I’m concerned) wearing pants wasn’t forbidden (and therefore desirable), but not really like reverse psychology because if she had given me a spiel about it not being fair that boys can sit however they want and that she wanted to wear pants too, I would have taken her to get some nice pants to wear. (Note: I didn’t point this out to her; the world is sexist and unfair and she’ll figure that out and be bothered or not by it in her own time.)
She thought it over for awhile and the next Sunday she wore leggings under her skirt. We haven’t talked about it since.
Yesterday I read a BCC post (it’s really just two links and a provocative comparison) that pointed me to the new dress and grooming guidelines for missionaries on LDS.org. The other link was to an interesting article on Huffington Post about how, if we want to encourage girls in the life of the mind (my awesome phrasing), we should ask them what book they are reading rather than telling them they’re pretty upon first meeting. (I have thoughts on that too, because I tell my girls they are cute all the time, but maybe that’ll be another post.)
I hadn’t seen the dress and grooming pages, and when I did, I was flabbergasted. Flabber-gasted. Really, you have to go there now and flip through all the pages. Don’t forget the makeup gallery and the makeup tips and the hair style gallery and the accessories page with the colorful ballet flats that would be so practical for walking on cobblestones for ten hours.
Then I got on Twitter and said that the pages seem superficial, condescending and creepy to me, and they are not the message I want to send to my daughters. Several women chimed in for the next two hours (though mostly they disagreed with me). Someone on the original BCC post said they recognized some of the skirts as costing $120 at Anthropologie; someone else calculated how much this kind of wardrobe (all “outfits,” no coordinating separates) would cost ($10,000). Most interesting was that two women who served missions in Belgium said the pages were great and necessary. Then one of those ladies went back and actually looked at how extensive and detailed they are and said she felt like she was on Pinterest (a website where design/crafter/hipster-types collect images of things they like).
A friend on Facebook echoed other comments that the pages seem necessary because immodesty is such a problem. I was surprised that many thought the pages were an attempt to get sister missionaries to tone down their appearance and makeup, when I thought they were clearly sending the message that women need to spend more money, time, and energy on their appearance in order to be good missionaries/Mormons.
Are the pages a call to frump up or frump down? Probably depends on how (non)frumpy you consider yourself, so my umbrage may certainly have to do with feeling inadequate and plain ugly (and middle-aged) compared to the models.
And I haven’t even mentioned that the Dress and Grooming guidelines only showcase women. I know there are strict guidelines for men, but they are not online (yet?) for some reason. And even when they are published, I doubt they’ll have an equivalent to this nugget of advice:
Tinted moisturizer with SPF is another quick way to get color and base. To minimize the appearance of dark circles under your eyes, use a yellow- or pink-toned concealer lighter than your skin tone to blend.
More subtly, the makeup section does have an “If you choose to wear makeup, here are some tips,” disclaimer, but this is the front page:
Huh. I wonder if makeup would help you look your best for the elders at zone conferences?
I have nothing against preaching modesty (so long as it’s taught as something a girl does for herself because she loves and honors herself and appreciates the wonderful body God has given her, not as a means of saving boys from themselves). And I also think it’s pragmatic and whatnot for the Church to have missionary guidelines and standards, to encourage/require a professional, be-your-best-you missionary force. But these pages go too far in suggesting that looks and clothes and accessories are all-important for women.
And here’s where I morph into a comment on the priesthood and how I feel about women not holding it. Doctrinally, it’s not a big issue for me. I like being able to do the things I can do as a woman that men can’t do, and I’m okay with different gender roles and biology and etc. But the practical ramifications that seem to follow, in our culture, from the fact that men, by virtue of holding the priesthood are in charge of correlation, in charge of what gets approved for curricula and the website and policies, in charge of telling women how they should look — it seems really unfortunate that women do not have a similar say in these matters. Can you separate doctrine from practice? Can I be a good Mormon if I don’t shop at Anthropologie?
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(If you’re on the Twitter and want to catch our next impromptu chat on #mormsandmakeup (TBA), you should follow @imaginaryzina, @compulsivewrtr, @grouchyteacher, @andrea_aka_mom, @hollywillnot, @oneinamelia, @jet_set, @suedonym, @thatfig, @lesliehatch and @emihill There are many, many other cool Mormon women on Twitter, and, of course, all heresies and infelicities of thought are my own. Just to give credit for lovely ladies helping me think this through, hope I didn’t miss anyone. I’m @seagullfountain.)
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And don’t tell me that this whole set of pages was done at the inspiration and execution of women — I don’t think I could handle the disillusion.
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If I weren’t at work right now (surfing the internet during a meeting – multi-tasking is good, right?) I would have so much to say about this, probably most of it rather rage fueled and inappropriate. I’m glad that you took the time to write a thoughtful post so that I can just say that I agree with you.
Also, I read that Huffington Post link yesterday and appreciated what she had to say. I often tell my daughters that they’re adorable, but I also frequently tell them what great readers they are, and how creative they are, etc. I’m not sure, however, that I hand out those reinforcements with the same regularity. It definitely gave me things to think about.
Shannon Reply:
July 1st, 2011 at 11:07 am
Me too, exactly. I found myself instantly thinking: but when I say, you’re the cutest, I’m referring to a behavior or facial expression or some inner smartness.
OK. I went through the web page, and I have absolutely no problem with this at all. Not a single problem. Not one.
Maybe this is because I live outside of Utah and FT missionaries are the norm in my ward and in my home (when I lived in Utah I saw them at temple square and that was about it, is all I’m saying) and I think that these pages are really, really, really helpful for them. In the big LDS communities there is an “unspoken” dress code, as well as the FTSOY booklet and things. Out here, in the wilds of West Texas, there is absolutely no such thing.
Some examples: 1. Remember when there was that kerfluffle about flip flops and white shirts at church? All the ladies online were so taken aback, remember? Really necessary in my ward, because we have members that don’t understand why we don’t want the sacrament passed in a Megadeath tshirt. Or why “beach attire” isn’t appropriate for renewing covenants (didn’t even get to the flip flops, mostly we were concerned about tube tops and daisy dukes). This is not a matter of “wearing my best” to church–no one would dare suggest that a member’s trousers (of which 40% of the women in my ward wear) are not appropriate if it is all that they have, but wearing what is cute and in style. I know members with rolls of cash who wear things that would be envied by the Big Fat Gypsy Wedding set.
Example 2: We have many, many, many members who are recent converts and want to go on missions. Not only do they need to learn the gospel, but they need to learn how to best represent themselves as elders and sisters. We have prospective elders who want to wear saggy pants with boxers over their undergarments and belt buckles the size of dinner plates. We have sisters who want to wear no bra and jeans or mini skirts and matching six-inch heels. And makeup? Hell’s Bells. So when they are looking to drop a few hundred on new wardrobes, it is wonderful to be able to say “jackets–hmmm. Here are 10 different styles. All different, but all conservative. I could find a style like this that suits me.” “Undergarments–what? A WHITE bra? Interesting. I had not thought of that. I will get one.”
I guess what I am saying (in this GIANT comment) is that I really, truly see a need for this in my area, among my youth and my friends. Hell, I see a need for this among my Relief Society. To show options of outfits and appropriate guidelines, and to encourage cleanliness and not smelling. I could find at least 75% of these items at my Ross or TJS, and I don’t think that are too much. I think it is great.
Side comment–the remark on the ballet flats on cobblestones–did you not see that had a ton of Borns and Danskos and Naturalizers with arch protection like crazy? I just took from the examples as “Look! cute shoes! Not stilettos!”
Shannon Reply:
July 1st, 2011 at 11:10 am
I really appreciate your POV, and I agree that members in areas outside of Utah definitely dress differently (I’ve lived in Japan, NYC, Cairo, Florida), but I think that is okay.
I’ve been trying to figure out how to express this (not that what I say matters), but, it’s something like: the content of these pages is fine (except maybe the makeup stuff still irks), but the context, like, the socio/gender/materialistic context is still troubling. Yes, of course, if you’re going to go buy new clothes, you should get ones like this (and here I’m projecting, I know), I don’t like feeling like I need to go spend a bunch of time/energy/money so I can look that good in order for God to love me. (project much? why yes). Sorry if I offended and/or annoyed you.
I said most of what I have to say on Twitter (aka compulsive writer), but aside from reiterating 1. that the huffpost piece and this are in completely different contexts and geared toward two completely different demographics and 2. that in 2 months of the MTC we maybe had 2 hours tops on grooming (so there was plenty of substance, no obsession whatsoever with looks), I wanted to add to what La Yen said. People come from all over the world to serve missions. Different cultures, different upbringings, different everything. These are guidelines, that is all. Some people will find them helpful. Some won’t. Some people might even choose to obsess over them. Some people won’t even care. As an RM, a mother (of both boys–one RM and one currently service–and a daughter), I don’t have a problem with this.
Shannon Reply:
July 1st, 2011 at 11:11 am
(Dalene, thank you. I am going to paste my reply to La Yen here so it goes to your email, in case you are interested.)
I really appreciate your POV, and I agree that members in areas outside of Utah definitely dress differently (I’ve lived in Japan, NYC, Cairo, Florida), but I think that is okay.
I’ve been trying to figure out how to express this (not that what I say matters), but, it’s something like: the content of these pages is fine (except maybe the makeup stuff still irks), but the context, like, the socio/gender/materialistic context is still troubling. Yes, of course, if you’re going to go buy new clothes, you should get ones like this (and here I’m projecting, I know), I don’t like feeling like I need to go spend a bunch of time/energy/money so I can look that good in order for God to love me. (project much? why yes). Sorry if I offended and/or annoyed you.
dalene Reply:
July 2nd, 2011 at 9:34 am
Shannon–Not offended or annoyed. It’s your blog–you can say whatever you want! I both appreciate the place to share my point of view and also that you shared where you’re coming from, as it never occurred to me to see it that way–that one has to look good for God to love her.
On a side note about the money–I thought Holly’s Pinterest page was lovely, and the cost was about what it cost us to outfit our boys. But I’m a cheapskate and quite sure you could outfit a sister for much less. When I went, I mostly took things I already had, with the addition of a nice wool suit (which I rarely wore) and a couple of cute but cheap jumpers (I know! But it was the 80s) I picked up from this outlet called Fritzi’s for $7 a piece. Most expensive item? Sensible walking shoes–worth every penny. Ironically, I once got chewed out by an Italian woman for ‘flaunting’ my wealth, as she was sure the $7 jumper had cost me hundreds.
In any case, I’ve never been one to fuss over or pay much attention to appearance (my own or others’–while I do appreciate certain senses of style, I look for and find beauty in many non-traditional ways), so it’s good to be reminded that there are other points of view about that.
Shannon Reply:
July 12th, 2011 at 12:25 pm
Dalene — Fritzi’s in Spanish Fork??? No joke, when I was in junior high in Salina, Utah, we made a yearly pilgrimage up here and that was one of the hallowed stops of our back-to-school outfitting.
Thanks for sharing your views!
I think a lot of sister missionaries want to know all of these things. It’s better to have every detail nicely pointed out than to let the ladies dress how ever they want. When you’re preparing for a mission I’d assume that you have more questions than can be answered in a single handbook. They addressed every question and answered it in a way that made it a simple “yes you can” or “no you can’t”. Not a “buy these specific clothes from this specific brand”. They picked clothes that were still stylish so that girls don’t feel like they have to dress like their mothers to be missionaries.
Until we go on missions I don’t think we can say whether or not this is needed. I’ll bet if you asked a sister missionary that is preparing to leave she’d tell you she was very grateful for all of these things.
But that’s just my opinion. I don’t often have one.
Shannon Reply:
July 1st, 2011 at 11:13 am
You’re right, in the context of missionary requirements, these pages are probably very helpful.
It’s hard for me to put my thoughts into words because I know I won’t be as eloquent as many, but I thought it was important to chime in. I didn’t read the links, but I’ve known about the guidelines for a very long time – since I was a sister missionary myself like 18 years ago.
I remember thinking as I looked over the guidelines that they were excessive and I would continue to dress modestly as I always did and there was no way I was going to go out and spend a ton of money on this type of new clothing.
That being said, I appreciate the guidelines in a “don’t wear more than one pair of earrings” kind of way. There are people out there who will push the limits. Without specific council, they will wear frumpy or immodest clothing, they will wear extreme makeup, and they will pierce their ears many times.
Just like some people would actually do fine (ie. not be excessive) drinking alcohol, some people (most?) don’t need to be told how to look nice. The rules and guidelines are not for those people. I don’t mean to say that they shouldn’t follow them, but that they were not created for them. The rules and guidelines are created for the weakest among us.
Yeah, it may seem condescending to tell young women how to wear makeup and how to look appropriate as a missionary, but it’s certainly not meant that way. Just keep in mind who the rules were created for and it won’t grate on you quite so forcefully.
Also, the guys have it way worse. As a missionary their dress code is super strict. I mean, they even have to wear a suit coat between certain months and always at meetings, and I believe their guidelines even talk about appropriate ties they can wear.
I do think the guidelines for sister missionaries are excessive. But I also believe they’re sadly necessary.
As for children being called “cute”, I hate it each time I say it, although I try to associate it with behavior. I say they’re being ugly when they’re naughty too because I think naughty behavior is ugly. And even the homeliest of children can be beautiful when they’re behaving well.
Shannon Reply:
July 1st, 2011 at 11:14 am
(Dear Cousin Heather, I’m going to paste my reply to others above so it’ll go to your email, if you remotely care
love you. Oh, and did you see Stella (Bethany’s) comment above?)
I really appreciate your POV, and I agree that members in areas outside of Utah definitely dress differently (I’ve lived in Japan, NYC, Cairo, Florida), but I think that is okay.
I’ve been trying to figure out how to express this (not that what I say matters), but, it’s something like: the content of these pages is fine (except maybe the makeup stuff still irks), but the context, like, the socio/gender/materialistic context is still troubling. Yes, of course, if you’re going to go buy new clothes, you should get ones like this (and here I’m projecting, I know), I don’t like feeling like I need to go spend a bunch of time/energy/money so I can look that good in order for God to love me. (project much? why yes). Sorry if I offended and/or annoyed you.
Heather Reply:
July 1st, 2011 at 11:36 am
Just so you know, I get to my email all the replies, not just replies to my own comment (but only because I clicked the “send me notification of further replies” button). I don’t see anything by Stella or Bethany in any of the comments. And I do care.
Honestly, I think it’s easy to find fault with the leadership of the Church. I believe that if they could speak to the insecurities of each one of us individually they would. Of course, that’s impossible, because our phobias/pet peeves/soap boxes are as different as we are.
How can they speak differently? How do they tell us to take care of our appearance without coming across as condescending to some? If you look at how they speak to the men of the church, you’ll notice that the women get leeway with regards to appearance but the men don’t at all. They’re not really given any choices. So it seems like the men make all the decisions, but look at the decisions they’re making. Men: we have to wear suits and white shirts and ties, we can’t have long hair at all, and no facial hair. But the women just have to look modest and nice – not fake. So where is the fault?
If we want to find it, it’s there. The leadership of the LDS Church is made of men and women (and I can guarantee that the women of the church have quite a bit of say in those guidelines) – imperfect, well-meaning, trying-not-to-single-anyone-out men and women. How many disclaimers are needed before it becomes inoffensive?
All I’m saying is that the leaders of the church didn’t mail you a copy and tell you to go out and buy this wardrobe. The leaders don’t tell any members to go out and buy the wardrobe. They are simply a set of guidelines for missionaries. That’s all.
Heather Reply:
July 1st, 2011 at 11:39 am
never mind on the email thing. even if you don’t “subscribe” to the replies you’ll get a direct reply. got it.
Shannon Reply:
July 1st, 2011 at 2:41 pm
Bethany’s comment is on the next post, sorry.
I decided last night while lying in bed that whether or not you like the grooming guide depends on how you are interpreting it. If it’s a guide for how to look nice and tasteful, intended to help the sorts of ladies of which La Yen speaks, that’s good. It is useful and well-done.
If you are like me, and all your experience with sister missionaries has been very stereotypical (none I’ve ever met has looked like one of the models on that page), then you see it as an encouragement to the sisters to de-frumpify themselves. And you think it’s a load of crap. (For the record, I’m not a frump – not that there’s anything wrong with being one – and it still bothers me. So I don’t think you’re just being sensitive.)
I’m grateful for the perspective from the other commenters. Helpful.
ALSO, I have something to say about the HuffPo piece. I don’t think the point was never to tell girls that they’re beautiful/adorable/cute/pretty, just don’t let that be the FIRST thing they hear. I want Viv to believe she is lovely just the way she is; I think that’s important. But that conversation should come several paces AFTER the ones about how important it is to be kind, educated, passionate, open-minded, etc.
Shannon Reply:
July 1st, 2011 at 11:15 am
Fig — (pasting above, again, but in case you care)
I’ve been trying to figure out how to express this (not that what I say matters), but, it’s something like: the content of these pages is fine (except maybe the makeup stuff still irks), but the context, like, the socio/gender/materialistic context is still troubling. Yes, of course, if you’re going to go buy new clothes, you should get ones like this (and here I’m projecting, I know), I don’t like feeling like I need to go spend a bunch of time/energy/money so I can look that good in order for God to love me. (project much? why yes). Sorry if I offended and/or annoyed you.
I wasn’t offended nor do I think this is some conspiracy to tell women that it’s looks that matter. Not at all. However, appearance does matter to a certain extent. When you’re a missionary, you are meeting new people every single day. Don’t you want to give potential investigators a good impression? Let’s face it, you’re not going to give the best impression if you’re dressed sloppily and haven’t combed your hair in days.
And coming from someone who was not raised in the Mormon Corridor, this is a heaven send to teenage girls in the Church. I went to church with young women who thought that you couldn’t be modest and look good. There were non-members I met who thought that Mormons were Amish!
You know, even though the pages and pages of accessories reminded me of Pinterest and the clothes intimidated me, on the whole I still don’t think that overall the site will be useful. In fact, one more mission story I for some reason didn’t think of last night was how, when I was getting ready for my mission, I asked a returned sister who’d served in the same mission what she’d worn. She said jumpers and loafers so–even though I didn’t have those things in my wardrobe–I bought jumpers and frumpy shoes. I also ONLY brought as many clothes as the guidelines suggested, not one item more. And it really wasn’t enough even to get me through between laundry days. And I didn’t have enough things that were appropriately dressy for church or zone conferences. Fortunately my mom found me some much more stylish and colorful things and managed to get them sent to me while I was still in the MTC. And I did use some of the jumpers and practical shoes, but some I ditched. And the point of this story? Really, I think a site like this would have been very useful to me, rather than trying to follow an outdated, weird packing list (I did mention the rubber galoshes, right?) or going by unreliable hearsay.
Shannon Reply:
July 1st, 2011 at 11:18 am
Hey Zina, I’m gonna paste my comment to La Yen et al, so it goes in your email in case you’re interested:
I really appreciate your POV, and I agree that members in areas outside of Utah definitely dress differently (I’ve lived in Japan, NYC, Cairo, Florida), but I think that is okay.
I’ve been trying to figure out how to express this (not that what I say matters), but, it’s something like: the content of these pages is fine (except maybe the makeup stuff still irks), but the context, like, the socio/gender/materialistic context is still troubling. Yes, of course, if you’re going to go buy new clothes, you should get ones like this (and here I’m projecting, I know), I don’t like feeling like I need to go spend a bunch of time/energy/money so I can look that good in order for God to love me. (project much? why yes). Sorry if I offended and/or annoyed you.
Zina Reply:
July 1st, 2011 at 11:37 am
It’s SO HARD
Zina Reply:
July 1st, 2011 at 11:39 am
Ugh, I hit return so soon. It’s SO HARD to give general advice that will be useful to all. Like, I feel kind of silly now that I thought loafers and jumpers was what was expected rather than just one person’s fashion choice, or thought I couldn’t pack one item more than what was recommended on a very narrow list. So there’s always a risk that very literal types like I was will think they have to find clothes that look just like that. But I still think it can be helpful to have so many specific suggestions and ideas given.
Woops! I think I started to say that overall I didn’t think the site was bad, and switched to saying overall it was useful, and ended up saying the opposite of what I meant. I *do* think it will be useful and would have liked to have something like it to refer to when I was figuring out what to bring.
I think the website is a great idea. When I went on my mission (in the 90s), the instructions were vague and insufficient–just as Zina pointed out in her comment. I think it is helpful, especially for sisters outside of Utah or new to the Church as LaYen pointed out, to have some sort of reference to what is modest and modern. My parents recently served at the Church history sites in Palmyra and were disappointed by the way most of the sisters dressed–too sloppy and frumpy. These are people making first impressions for many people for our Church! Appearance isn’t everyhing, but we should look relevant and welcoming when we are being representatives for a cause we believe in.
Is it okay that I am enjoying reading your post (as usual!) and reading all the comments more so than leaving my own opinion. I am still trying to figure out my take on the guidelines. In the meantime I am loving hearing everyone else’s opinion and insight!
I find that site personally helpful because I always seem to have a hard time figuring out what is appropriate to wear to church, especially when it comes to footwear. I’m 5’10″ and already taller than my husband so I generally avoid heels, and I like to wear open-toed shoes because of the climate – so with those two factors, I constantly worry about wearing shoes that are formal enough, especially since they have mentioned it in General Conference a few times.
TopHat Reply:
June 30th, 2011 at 5:33 pm
Go barefoot. Solves the whole problem. I do it every week as do my children. My DH still has yet to get on board.
Shannon Reply:
July 1st, 2011 at 11:17 am
So, I wear flipflops when I am 8-9 months pregnant, but I’ve told my daughters they can only do that when they are pregnant themselves.
But this is a good point (and I appreciate that you applied it to yourself in a positive way. I applied it to myself and felt frumpy…)
I was glad to hear about the more stylish dress code, but I was more than surprised when I looked through the website. The clothes seemed like over-the-top Utah Mormon styles! I have seen plenty of non-Utah-Mormon sisters who were classy and stylish themselves. They don’t have to suddenly all want to sport side braids supported by a flowered barrette. But I guess the idea is good; who doesn’t want some specific ideas when heading out into the great unknown, right? And there are a lot of sisters who really should work on their dress standards because after all, sales people have to look classy and professional, so why not missionaries? I guess the people who took the pictures, organized the wardrobes, and posed don’t really realize that there is a very distinctive Utah-Mormon girly look (my 16-year-old sister could probably mimic any one of those outfits, jewelry included) and they pretty much just set it up as a level to reach for. Intriguing.
Shannon Reply:
July 1st, 2011 at 11:21 am
(pasted from above)
I’ve been trying to figure out how to express this (not that what I say matters), but, it’s something like: the content of these pages is fine (except maybe the makeup stuff still irks), but the context, like, the socio/gender/materialistic context is still troubling. Yes, of course, if you’re going to go buy new clothes, you should get ones like this (and here I’m projecting, I know), I don’t like feeling like I need to go spend a bunch of time/energy/money so I can look that good in order for God to love me. (project much? why yes).
(I don’t think I offended you, so I’ll skip that part
)
I think you are missing the whole point of the church’s site here. Having been a missionary myself, it would have been nice to have some examples of what was approprite for a sister missionary and what was not. I don’t see anywhere on the site that you have to shop at Anthropologie or any other high end store to get the clothes you need as a missionary. It says right on the site “The outfits shown here provide an idea of current styles that are appropriate for various climates and conditions. You may find similar items in stores near you or by shopping online.” That’s right, these are only IDEAS! Missionaries and any other woman can certainly make up their own minds about what works best for them, financialy, physicall and stylistcally!I think you are blowing this way out of proportion and need to really look at yourself and why it bothers you so much that the church took the time to put together some help on what is apprpriate for sister missionaries. It is very clear cut for the Elders, but not so much for the sisters.
Shannon Reply:
July 1st, 2011 at 10:51 am
You’re absolutely right. I definitely projected a lot and took it personally. I’m trying to figure out how to say this — the content of the site (except maybe some of the makeup stuff, okay?) is great, the context bothers me: the social, gender, etc context.
Sorry if I offended.
i found your last question quite amusing. can you still be a good Mormon and not shop at some store? well, i happen to be the best Mormon and i hardly shop at all. i have no fashionable clothing and i hardly ever wear a bra. i have lived in Utah and all over the U.S. and I have always fit in at church. actually i always have a ton of friends, some frumpy and some very fashionable and they never have cared what i wear or if i brush my hair or not.
i think it’s a good idea for sister missionaries to have some guidelines on what to wear or not to have exotic make up. it has never affected me in any way. i wear crocs or slippers to church because i have wide feet. no one (except my friend brandi
has ever commented or cared.
all this pressure to look a certain way to be a good Mormon must just be in your head. it has never been anyone’s definition of what a good Mormon is. and yes you already know who the exceptional Mormons are. they are the ones who bring you meals when you are sick, and watch your kids when you are tired and call you to chat when you are lonely, and mow your lawn when your husband is away. you probably haven’t even noticed how they dress, because their actions not clothes define them. it’s actually quite simple to be a good Mormon and not shop.
Shannon Reply:
July 12th, 2011 at 12:16 pm
I love you Sylwia, and also you crack me up.
I admit I do feel self-conscious (mostly due to my current state of post-baby frumpiness) after viewing the church website. I’ve always (maybe wrongly) assumed that church was a place I didn’t need to be very stylish (yes- well groomed which is different) because we’re all more concerned with other more important things like raising families, being good people, and living within our means. That being said, I think I would have had a more positive reaction to the clothing examples if the website also gave some shopping tips and photos of how to mix and match only a few pieces to achieve a stylish look rather than 10 completely unique outfits (that’s the hard part of shopping). I personally know many young people who can’t really afford to buy ANYTHING new when going on a mission and I’m afraid this website would make them feel self-conscious or unworthy somehow.
Shannon Reply:
July 12th, 2011 at 12:29 pm
I think the post-baby frumpiness is the hardest thing. You’re (I’m) already physically and hormonally and emotionally a mess, and then I have to get showered and dressed and made-up? Just to go to church and tell Heavenly Father how grateful I am for this wonderful baby? What? My mom has this great story about how the first time she went back to church after I was born (I was her first and she was 19), I pooped ALL OVER her yellow dress. Yes, she still remembers every detail of that dress.