Comments on: Pretend feminists

By: Dvor Srbija

Dvor Srbija — Sun, 09 Jan 2011 22:10:13 +0000

Nice article, thanks. Can you explain the first paragraph in more detail?

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By: Arianne

Arianne — Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:32:11 +0000

Wow, what an interesting article, and such interesting thoughts and reactions. Two things bothered me a lot about Rosen’s article. No, three. 1) Her desires for her children and their health/well-being as she described them in the first few paragraphs seemed largely based on her trying to fit in. Like the way she describes with such scorn the food and toy choices her playground set make. It doesn’t seem like SHE cares that she’s feeding her kids 100% juice rather than chemicals and corn syrup. (Regardless of which she chooses), it seems to me she should be doing it because she believes in it, not out of social pressure. 2) It bothered me that the health benefits seemed to be her only reason for supporting breast feeding (or condemning it if they couldn’t be proven). Even if the proof of health benefits is only thin, there are still lots of reasons women might want to breast feed: bonding, cost, convenience–not carrying bottles around, not getting up to make a bottle at night–avioding chemicals, personal preference, enjoyment, etc. She even seems to agree to this in her very last paragraph, yet the rest of her article seems to bag on breastfeeding solely because the research can’t proove its health benefits. And that seems to invalidate women who want to do it for any of the other reasons. 3) This quote irks me: “This is why, when people say that breast-feeding is ‘free,’ I want to hit them with a two-by-four. It’s only free if a woman’s time is worth nothing.” It really bothers me that she considers her time with her baby “nothing.” That she considers nourishing another human being and keeping it alive “nothing.” I guess writing articles, or typing memos, or waiting tables, or driving buses are noble, worthwhile uses of a woman’s time, but caring for a child is just crap in her opinion. And that’s a sad opinion for a mother to have about raising her own children.

By: Jane

Jane — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 01:17:04 +0000

Um, but I’m not sure I’d classify a breast pump as a “trial and atrocity” regardless of degree. Although they aren’t the funnest thing ever. This is true.

By: Nikki

Nikki — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 06:14:07 +0000

You rock. I loved every word of this post.

By: MereCat

MereCat — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 18:08:53 +0000

Amen. What’s up with these so called feminists making life so hard? They need to back off and let people live. Fercryinoutloud.

By: Steffj89

Steffj89 — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 02:01:20 +0000

Amazing isnt it that in 25 years we have come so far to be standing in mostly the same place. The issues may change and even come and go, but somehow or another we still wind up in a place where women are judging each other on the basis of choices we make or don’t make and girls we are much harsher critics than men.
It is amazing to me that we still in this day and age will DAMN each other to hell for not making the same choice as we do. we judge the women that work because god forbid their kids might need their attention and we judge the ones who stay at home because that must mean their family is poor and we judge the ones who breastfeed because that pump must chain them to a babe and the ones who don;t because they must not love their babes enough….
if we spent half as much time trying to build each other up and affirm that whether or not we agree with the choices thank God they are our own choices to make as we do tearing each other apart maybe we would all be in better shape.

i think sometimes that is why blogging has taken off so much as it has in recent years…we seek out the bloggers who most seem to affirm whichever path we have chosen to walk, becuse it is always easier when you know you are not walking completely alone.
anyway….i am not sure what my point was or if i made it but here is my final thought
CHEERS to all of you women and men, mama’s and not, daddys and not,
whether you breastfeed/fed, work/stay home, protest /dont protest….
cheers that we made whatevre choices we made and walked the road that we walked to become the people we are today and may we teach our children to do as well.
Steff

By: Marianne

Marianne — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 15:25:46 +0000

Clicked over very quickly to the link, then left.

I didn’t want to contribute any further to their traffic.

By: b.

b. — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 03:28:58 +0000

This was really good…I loved the comment thread too.
Thanks for your words.

By: Tom Johnson

Tom Johnson — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 00:26:08 +0000

I totally agree with you here. To complain about something so small as a breastpump, in comparison to all the other trials and atrocities in life, seems a very shallow thing.

By: Jake Aryeh Marcus

Jake Aryeh Marcus — Sun, 05 Apr 2009 20:40:44 +0000

“Jake — I’m not “pro-breastfeeding” in the same way that I am “pro-life;” for example, I would vote for measures restricting abortion for others, but find it hard to imagine a scenario in which I’d vote to force others to breastfeed. Make sense?”

I think I understand. The lingo is problematic – particularly when conflated with feminism and choice. I am “pro-breastfeeding” in that I think that breastfeeding is a good (and important) thing and would support legal protection of it – which does not mean, imo, *forcing* anyone to breastfeed. I have only heard of one country in which there has been legislation sanctioning women for failing to breastfeed (and now I can’t remember which it was – an African country I think). Legally forcing a woman to breastfeed would not be feminist, imo. Protecting a woman’s ability to breastfeed and to make a fully informed choice concerning it – *that* is feminist.

By: Jared

Jared — Sun, 05 Apr 2009 05:51:07 +0000

I may have not made my point very well. I probably got a little carried away with bragging about my wife. I didn’t mean to suggest that my wife is perfect, and it would annoy her if I did. I’m not saying she is, or women in general are, perfect. She has flaws, good days and bad days, days when she loves being a stay at home mom, days when she hates it, most days it’s probably a mix of the two.

My point was that men and women both have remarkable characteristics and abilities. I don’t know why they need to be the same to be of value.

I like individualist though. Everyone is a little different. I thought that was the original intent of feminism. Allowing everyone opportunity and choice. Not forcing women into being a different, updated version of the stereotyped woman.

By: kikibibi

kikibibi — Sun, 05 Apr 2009 03:06:38 +0000

I love this discussion! So many great opinions and experiences to share. For the record, I breastfed, I worked full time, and I stored milk during times when I could not be with the babies. I used a manual pump which was perfect. With my first, I was finishing college, and on some days I had to pump in the bathroom of the English-Philosophy Building and store the milk in my (male) prof’s fridge. Looking back, it seems like that must have been so awkward-uncomfortable, but I was blissfully content and confident. Nothing could keep me down! Girls were in and out of that bathroom all the time, and I wonder now if some of them were traumatized for life!

By: Charlotte

Charlotte — Sun, 05 Apr 2009 00:17:40 +0000

I have always been surprised when a die-hard feminist is insulted (or is it threatened?) by the choices I have made. I suppose they don’t really want choices, they want conformity. I don’t understand the hard core breastfeeders, either. I think most mothers instinctively know what is best for their children. And I don’t think it is the same for every mother. After having 6 kids, I don’t think it is the same for each child either (some I nursed longer, others not so much).

And hopefully no one is going after their man while on the ventilator. That could be dangerous. Unless you’re married to Darth Vader, then it would be hot.

By: Jane

Jane — Sat, 04 Apr 2009 23:58:07 +0000

MorethanMommy — You make a whole bunch of really good points, esp. about how the militant extremists on both sides can seemingly lose sight of what our common goals are.

But I don’t know if there was satire in those pieces. I would hope so, because this is how Judith Warner ends her piece:

And she adds, “I’m hoping pump companies will just disappear.”

So am I. In fact, I hope that some day, not too long in the future, books on women’s history will feature photos of breast pumps to illustrate what it was like back in the day when mothers were consistently given the shaft. Future generations of female college students will gaze upon the pumps, aghast.

“Did you actually use one of those?” they’ll ask their mothers, in horror.

And the moms, with a shudder, will proudly say no.

I’m afraid that this only sounds like satire because it’s so completely beyond the realm of logic.

By: Heather

Heather — Sat, 04 Apr 2009 17:16:30 +0000

Fake feminists. Thank for pointing it out. It’s women like these that give all women a bad name. Taking away the freedom to choose – even if that choice is to stay at home and/or breastfeed – is the opposite of what feminism should stand for.