There are biological reasons why extra-marital affairs and promiscuity are abhorrent to us and they aren’t all disease-related. Laws that show up in religions have a NATURAL reason that they are laws. Religion just put them on paper first.

You’re not a religious fanatic. You’re smart and can understand the consequences of the lives that were so poorly written out in that B-Movie.

I do hate how the media (and this movie too, of course) sensationalizes sex. Sex isn’t glamorous and it certainly isn’t as perfect or clean as it’s portrayed in the movies. I wish I had talked about it more growing up. I longed for it more than anything else – because that seemed to be the ultimate goal. If only I had known how much more beautiful and intimate and funny and embarrassing and messy and noisy and quick!

I cherish the intimacy that my husband and I share, and that has a whole heck of a lot more to do with communication than with actual sex. Too bad the media can’t sensationalize that!

My husband had premarital sex. I didn’t. We’re Mormons. He did the repentance thing and met me a couple years later. We made out a lot (too much, probably) but didn’t sleep together, married in the temple, etc. He disclosed his past mistakes when we got engaged, which was tough for me. I hadn’t expected to marry someone who didn’t save himself for me as I did for him. The first six months of marriage were hard – really hard – as we tried to deal with that. I did get over it, eventually. I appreciate the hard lessons he learned and the testimony of the Atonement that he gained.

I guess the point here is that we now know, through personal experience, that the consequences of premarital sex are bigger than one might realize. The repentance process was long and hard, the loss of self-worth rough. It strained our marriage. It broke my heart. I hope we can communicate that to our kids someday, hope we can help them avoid that pain.

Also, I’ve noticed the same thing as Beth. Those I know who have left the Mormon church haven’t moved on to different churches; they ditched organized religion altogether.

PS, Tara said you were going to see Duplicity recently as well. What were your thoughts on it? I saw it a few days ago.

And the funny things Drew Barrymore said, and I did like how they showed the Mac guy falling in love, getting his comeuppance.

But the enjoyable parts in no way outweighed the ick. How do moviemakers get some parts of the human existence so, so right, and other parts just — wrong?

We saw Duplicity yesterday, and I was disappointed. So disappointed. The thing is, I love movies, and love stories, and I wish there were more that didn’t have some ick factor buried (or not so buried) among the good parts.

Laura Lee — I think you’re absolutely right that parents bear responsibility for encouraging or cooing over school-kid crushes. I want my kids to grow up as slowly as possible in that area.

Again: my experience, my opinion.

And again: Never stop thinking about the boy who finally kissed me.

First off, THANK YOU JANE for hating that movie for all the right reasons. I actually walked out 3/4 of the way through (when Jennifer Connoley smashes the mirror) because I was bawling my freakin’ head off and didn’t want to explain myself to the girlfriends I was with. My parents split over cheating, my best friend is currently being cheated on, and hubs and I were having a bad week, so I think I took it a little deeper to heart than most of the other moviegoers.
What struck me so deeply about the storyline was how he turned Scarlett down several times before finally succumbing. I was horrified to think that there are people like her character out there with a complete disrespect for marriage.

As for the debate about sex before marriage, you should know that I was uplifted by the fact that YOU are one more mom out there that cares and is teaching their children to wait. Although, I don’t understand why religion seems to be such a dividing line on this issue. Why isn’t EVERYONE teaching kids that there are natural, real-world consequences to their actions like pregnancy, STD’s and AIDS? Shouldn’t those reasons be enough? I proudly wear the fanatic badge right along with you but don’t see why personal beliefs have to come into the discussion at all. It just MAKES GOOD SENSE to hold off until you’re whole-heartedly (and legally) committed to one person. Then the “mystery smells” don’t have to be a source of deep heartache and destroyed families. They can just be a source of embarassment and hilarity on the blogosphere.

Charlotte — You’re absolutely right – I have somewhat of a double standard when it comes to books. I’ll read romances or literary books where unmarried people have sex. And I can’t justify that. I do not enjoy books that accept infidelity, and when there is premarital sex, the books I enjoy are ones that end in marriage. I know, that’s a completely illogical rationality, but… I got nothing else. (I also enjoy shows like The Office and House and Alias, etc, that portray premarital sex, and all I can say is that sometimes it just doesn’t bother me, which is probably indefensible after my saying that I just hated that one smutty movie.)

Just out of curiosity, I thought you were a fan of the trashy romances, and I find the written word arguing for unchastity equally disheartening. What are your thoughts on that?

Anyway, I wish someone had told me the taboo about talking about sex in our (religious) culture. I can be a bit blunt at times. Oops.

And good luck with that “feminine” issue.

I am absolutely convinced, however, that chastity is a big part of the answer, and I honestly don’t understand how any intelligent person can expect happiness conducting their life contrary to that. Just imagine what the world would be like if everyone would just go home tonight and sleep in their own bed!

So — I would say that my 11 year old self was chaste, but the dancing was not appropriate. After a couple dances, when my mom realized they were being held (at the school, during the last period of the day), that she started having me go home from school early on those days. And I didn’t go to another dance until I was 14.

But, interestingly, innocence and chastity are not exact synonyms (Perhaps my 11 yo self was innocent but not strictly chaste of thought?). Now I am not “innocent” as in “virginal,” but my connubial bliss w/ my husband is “chaste.” I don’t know. I don’t like to equate “innocent” with “virginal,” either, because rape victims (those whose virginity is stolen) should not be considered less innocent, though they are forced to an understanding of those things. (If the opposite of innocent were “knowledge” or “awareness.”)

The crux, for me, is that on the one hand, I (we) have this pure, strong standard, and honestly, maybe only 1% of the population can live up to it. (Maybe more, depending on how you define the ideal.) But I would never want to throw stones or get up a scarlet letter campaign or anything. (Because I don’t even know what letters I’d have to wear myself.)

The Jesus Christ of the New Testament is perhaps so perfect because He somehow combined uncompromising truth with utter and absolute compassion. If we could treat each other that way, I think it would help in encouraging others (and ourselves) to live up to our principles, instead of alienating with harshness or gossip or corrosive shame.

As to what Dominic said — Oh, how I hope so. But I’m not even talking just about “media.” I’m talking about blogs and comments left on blogs by regular people (mothers and fathers!) just like me.

For example, I read this post on BlogHer a few months ago, and it’s basically: “you’ve talked to your kids about safe sex, but how about being ready for it emotionally.” The post and the comments all assumed that premarital sex is a given, and not one person (at the time I commented) mentioned religion or philosophy or even any sort of moral aspect of sexuality. It was very disheartening.

It’s almost odd, because I read mostly religious blogs, or, really, blogs by people who are interested by or engaged in some sort of religious life. But whenever I step outside that circle (virtually), I’m often shocked by just how “unrealistic” I supposedly am.

i try to follow my church’s council not to disclose past transgressions, so i speak in general terms, but anything bad that you can think of I’m pretty sure i have i done…it was not fun, none of it.

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I was taught that sex is a wonderful thing within the confines of marriage and my own experience has confirmed that fact. I hope someday to instill that principle into my own children. Boys and girls alike!

Beth, it’s because Catholics believe the Catholic church is the one true church. Mormons believe the Mormon church is the one true church. They’re already convinced that other churches are lacking. So, when they leave their respective churches, they leave religion altogether. If the best of what they’ve found turns out not to be true (in their eyes), then nothing can be true. Sometimes people join other churches, but in my experience what you’ve described is true. I can only think of two people I know who left for other churches but both greatly respect the LDS church.

Loved this post! More people need to speak out on this.