Tomorrow morning an AP photographer is coming to the house to document our Getting Ready For Church process. At first this sounded like a thrilling experience (the sort of publicity that happens to the very famous or the very troubled), until I realized it actually means that we’ll be performing at 7:30 am, and I still haven’t lost those twenty (thirty?) pounds, much less perfected my No-Yelling persona.
These photographs, of Dick helping Spot with her tights and me making princess pancakes, will accompany an article I was interviewed for on Friday. Melissa, an AP freelancer, is writing a response to Parenting magazine’s Mad at Dad article. She wanted my take on the marital sharing of child care and household chores, and whether or not I feel the same anger that many women feel when their husbands do not seem to spend the same amount of mental energy or physical effort on everything it takes to keep a family and house running smoothly.
Do I feel the rage? Why yes, I do. Quite often, in fact, thank you so much for asking.
But what’s more interesting to me is that Melissa found me, two time zones away, through my blog. Not because my blog is big (it’s not) or famous (ditto) (in fact I’m pretty sure I won’t even be getting any free blog publicity out of this), but because I’ve written about Man Laundry.
You see, if you google “man laundry” (and who doesn’t google the odd “man laundry” on a slow Thursday evening?), my post is the third result.
So my credibility stems not from writing such a cool blog (hey, it’s my site, I can print my own delusions), but from the fact that when I watch that movie The Break-Up, and there’s that scene where Jennifer Aniston’s character says “I want you to want to do the dishes,” and Vince Vaughn’s character says (with unforgivably-impeccable logic) “Why would I want to do dishes?” . . . I cry.
All any woman wants is a man who wants to do the dishes.
Or who’ll at least feel guilty when they sit smirking in the sink.
But I digress. When I was thinking about the interview, I got on Twitter just before midnight Thursday to see if other women identify with the Mad at Dad phenomenon. Kirsty in Australia and Natasha in Canada and Beth and Stacey in Texas had thoughts.
And sure, I talked about this with Chrysanthemum while the kids decorated sugar cookies, and with Dick while we ate dinner, but . . . the power of blogging, that the writing of a little personal blog in a small corner of the internet on my bare-bones Costco laptop in a kitchen in Seagull Fountain Utah means that a lady in Ohio calls me up to talk about how hard it is to negotiate motherhood and marriage.
And people I’d never have met in real life, on the other side of the world, respond almost-immediately when I type at them in the middle of the night.
How FREAKIN’ cool is that?
Not to mention other sweet people who comment or email and make me feel so ding-dang chirpy I could break into song in a flowery meadow right next to the Mary Poppins penquins.
Motherhood (and perhaps especially, stay-at-home motherhood) can be so isolating. Our modern lives, where we move several times for work or family, can be so socially fragmented. I don’t want to be flippant or simplistic, but I’ve thought on more than one occasion that if only Andrea Yates had had a blogging-Twitter-Facebook-internet community, if only she’d been able to see how other mothers, similar-yet-different-enough, coped with the strains and pressure . . . maybe she would have figured out how to ask for help.
Being connected to you-all makes me a happier mother, is what I’m saying. It makes me a saner person, a healthier wife with more realistic expectations. Sometimes it’s frightening or disappointing or embarrassing, to expose my flaws and express my insecurities.
But it’s always worth it.
Thank you.
Jane
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I finally read the Mad at Dad article. I admit it, I wasn’t ready to read it. Tonight, after a blow out that pretty much could have been summed up in that article, I think it was just what I needed.
I want a real day off.
I thought the article was interesting.
I’ve spent most of my marriage being pissed off…it didn’t help the situation improve.
I’ve learned a lot and benefited greatly from my daily look inside other wives/moms world through the blogs I read. I’d even say, my marriage has improved because of it. (I didn’t even try to punctuate that correctly….I’m too tired)
“Sometimes it’s frightening or disappointing or embarrassing, to expose my flaws and express my insecurities.”
But you do it anyway. Thank you.
You’re a celebrity now!
How did it go?
Hope it went well! Oddly enough, I just happened to read that article last week. I get frustrated with my husband on a regular basis, but the article actually made it sound even worse than it is.
And just this week, when that scene from The Break-Up was on a commercial preview, I commented to Ryan that that is EXACTLY how men and women feel!
I waffle between hoping against all odds that our household duties will some day be shared equally and resignation that it will never happen. Frankly, I don’t mind as much now that we have less-than-equal arrangements for things like cooking and cleaning because he has a real job and practically speaking has to be gone for long periods every day. BUT. We were both full-time graduate students with no children for many, many years before the Real Job came around. And we never came anywhere close to equal sharing of cooking and especially cleaning during that time, when there was no excuse for unequal sharing of such tasks. Eric does like to say that he’s a feminist and all that stuff…but how come he has rarely in our 10+ years of marriage done basic household cleaning (you know, laundry, sweeping, cleaning the bathrooms, vacuuming) without me specifically asking him to? I just don’t like that it has become my job–either to do it myself, or to ask him to do it. He is perfectly capable of noticing that the laundry bin or diaper pail is full, or that the floors are dirty, or that the sink has lots of soap & toothbrush scum. He just says “I have a higher tolerance for dirt than you do.” Which, in my opinion, is a really lame excuse for not taking some initiative after more than 10 years of knowing that I have been doing the lion’s share of these household tasks.
You’re at it again, Jane! I have a draft with a similar (although not even close to as good) post as this one. I’ve been trying to understand why I love blogging so much and live for comments so much and I decided it’s because it helps me feel not so alone. It also makes me a happier person and also I think it’s because it’s one of the only ways in mylife that I get validation and recognition I guess you could say. It means a lot to know that people care about you enough to come read your blog. Or that it’s interesting enough that they come even if they don’t know you (or like you). Jane, it was you that changed my outlook and method of blogging and for that I have to thank you. You showed me that it can be an escape and that it’s possible to just be you and be real, imperfections and all. Not that you have any…..
Ok, don’t take this personally, ladies, but let me make something REALLY clear.
Guys are NEVER going to *want* to do the dishes.
I mean, we don’t *want* to do most of the household things we sometimes trudge around doing as queen martyrs. How could we expect them to want to?
I’ll settle for a husband who *does* them, without grumbling or complaining that I never got to them during the day. (Of course, I think I’m one of the lucky ones that I have such a man)
So, as long as I’m ranting, here’s a conversation from yesterday:
Me to my very sick mom (very, very sick: horrible sinus infection, achy body, bunion killing, arthritis swelling every knuckle, carpal tunnel throbbing, head exploding sick): Mom, have you asked dad for a blessing?
Mom: He never thinks of giving me a blessing.
Me: (exhasperated) Neither does Rob! I ask for one when I need one! Ask dad for a blessing after you take a hot bath.
Mom: He’ll be asleep by then.
Me: Ask for a blessing *before* your bath mom! Will you ask him?
Mom: Ok, ok.
WHY, why, why do we want guys to read our minds? We drop anvil hints, and then we’re hurt because they didn’t do something. When we express our hurt, they are fixers (This is how they’re designed, remember? We’re the nurturers, not them!). They jump on the actions words–”Sure I’ll bring dinner home/kiss you when I come in the door/cuddle with you while you read your book while I’m watching sports!”
But by then we’re pouting and playing the martyr. “Well, *now* the idea is ruined. I wanted *you* to think of it.” We won’t accept their desperate attempt to right a situation they didn’t even realize they wronged (because they’re GUYS).
I promised my spouseman early on that I wouldn’t hint. And I don’t. I tell him. “I want you to kiss me when you come in the door.” “I want you to buy me flowers.” You might say this takes all the fun out of it, but for me, I’m happy that my husband *wants* to please me, but is a good ‘ole clueless man.
I feel extremely blessed that my husband defines success as whether or not he’s able to help me be happy (in a good way, not in a codependent way). I could start a whole other post on that, though, because I also explain to him that when I’m in depression, it’s not a reflection of him failing at being a good husband. In fact, he is an amazing husband in spite of my body’s chemical levels being in overdraft sometimes.
But I digress. Please don’t take my comments wrong–I love (and get!)the point of your post, which is that mothers can bond together with our frustrations, and if we’re open and honest, even when it’s raw and scary to do so, we show each other that behind our nice houses and sometimes well-kept children, we’re real mothers who worry, cry, stress, fear, agonize, and sometimes despair over the day to day temporal trials in our lives. Which often include interacting with our husbands and/or children, since we all see each other at our worst.
Oh, man laundry is one of the frustrating banes of my life. My husband’s biggest problem: he just turns the washer on to the same cycle every time without checking the water temperature or level. To his credit I admit he washes/dries laundry without being asked (note, he does not put it away usually–just stacks it all on the couch in the living room where anyone who comes to the door can see immediately). But when I find he has done five huge loads on low water level and then I have to rewash them… my frustration gets the best of me. I have taken to putting my own clothes in a separate hidden hamper. I figure eventually he will ruin clothes and learn his lesson, but I don’t want them to be mine!
Kimberly, I wrote about this a little bit in my most recent blog post.
In fact, Jane, the tone of your post and some of what you expressed sound a lot like what I just wrote!!
The reason women want men to read their minds is that they want affirmation. They want to know that they are loved enough that the people around them think about helping them/loving them/complimenting them on their own. It’s insecurity.
I made a step recently toward getting over that: I ASKED FOR HELP. I asked for a LOT of help and I TOLD my husband, “This is what I need. You need to phone people to arrange it.” And he did. And even though we asked, even though it wasn’t all spontaneous, I have never felt more loved in my life.
I’m not one to overtly plug my blog posts, but y’all should really read it. It changed me and might be a light bulb moment for you, too.
How to love a woman: http://www.becomingsomething.com/2009/02/how-to-love-a-woman.html
I have no problem with asking (or telling) my husband to help out around the house.
But I do get mad when I have to ask/tell repeatedly. Because then I feel like a nagger. I know my husband’s work colleagues don’t have to ask him more than once for work things. So why would I have to ask 5 million times at home? Men ARE capable of remembering laundry and trash, etc from day to day, but they often choose not to.
(Honestly, I think this is related in some way to a fault of my own — that I might yell at my husband for doing something that I would never criticize a friend for doing. And that’s wrong. It’s also wrong for a husband to be more consistently responsive and accountable for work things than house things).
And why is it even phrased as “helping out”? Is it helping out when I just do what needs doing? Is it called “babysitting” when I take care of the kids?
Expecting my husband to be as responsible and as taking-of-initiative at home as I know he is at work and in his blogging is not insecurity on my part (at least I really don’t think it is), it’s … well, I’m sure it’s a futile expectation, but having to remind a grown-up (multiple times over 11 years) to do things they’ve already committed to do of their own free will and choice — that’s a little bit demeaning. (I meant to say — it’s demeaning to both of us, just as it is when I yell at him for things that a friend would get a pass on.)
I wasn’t referring to that, Jane. I was responding to Kimberly’s comment.
Men are definitely capable of treating us as well as their co workers and responding to our needs/wants right away. My husband does. And yes he does want to do the dishes, not because he enjoys the task, but because his main goal in life is to make me happy no matter how tired or lazy he feels. I try to do the same for him, though he never asks for as much as I do, or anything at all, in fact.
So possessing the female intuition that I do, I figured out what matters to him (yummy food, awesome intimate life, happy wife that compliments him every waking hour). So that’s what my main priorities in life are.
This all comes down to how selfish we and our spouse decides to be. I would never do what I do for a selfish man…but what about a semi selfish man? I don’t know. Kindness has to begin with someone, I’m just glad in my relationship it began with my husband…
“You see, if you google “man laundry” (and who doesn’t google the odd “man laundry” on a slow Thursday evening?), my post is the third result.”
You must be getting more powerful… it was the second result when I googled it.
Oh dear, you had your interview without my precious opinion (because Lord knows you would have NOTHING to say without MY incredible insight). Overall, I do not get all that frustrated with my husband. I have moments, yes (like why is it after 5 years of parenthood he still doesn’t understand the need to schedule naps?) but mostly it’s not an issue. How do I manage this marital bliss? Simple.
1.) I quit a very nicely paying job to do this job. A job that includes doing laundry, cleaning & cooking. Before I did my paying job and this job. So really, in the greater scheme of things, my job got easier. IT IS A JOB. I get up in the morning, and put on my “uniform” and get to work. Yes, my day is longer, yes I don’t get paid but it is still a job. I don’t expect my husband to work two jobs, just like he doesn’t make me work two jobs.
2.) I have a housekeeper. She comes twice a month. She just cleans the basics; bathrooms, vacuums, dusts, etc but it is enough that I don’t feel like a maid.
3.) I ask for help when I need it. I’ve learned to be self-aware and predict when I’m going to need help the most. If I know we are having company I make a “honey-do” list for David, put his name on the top and then say nothing. If he doesn’t get it done, he knows he didn’t do his part. As a rule it works.
I do think we women get married with this notion that we are of a generation that is enlightened and will somehow be able to accomplish something our mother’s could not. The truth is, it is biological and practical. It is very difficult for two people to keep track of the feeding schedule of one infant. It is very difficult for two people to own the same tasks. It is the first rule of project management; if two people “own” a task than nobody owns it.
I’m happy with my arrangement because A.) it is MY arrangement and B.) I changed my expectations to meet my reality. And you know what? I love and adore my husband and if he wants to live in a house where he can throw his dirty clothes on the floor, next to his bed then God bless him, just don’t expect me to wash them.
Natasha & Kimberly — You both make really good points, and I definitely agree that we can’t (or shouldn’t) get mad at men for not being able to read our minds. I just get upset when I feel I’ve been explicit, and something still doesn’t happen. And this — this is what I often hear myself saying “And I have one of the GOOD ones.”
I can’t even imagine being married to a man who wasn’t as invested in our relationship or as not-selfish as my husband is.
But (to be completely honest) I still do get mad, even at this COULD BE MUCH WORSE man of mine.
It’s interesting. My sister (who got divorced this summer) is now in a relationship with a giver. (For whatever reason, I think a higher percentage of women are more naturally “givers.”) And my sister almost doesn’t know how to interact with this man who is so different from the taker she had. That’s something it would be worthwhile to get used to, though, so I’m sure it’ll all work out.
Sylwia — Wow, yes. It is all about being unselfish. And trying (on my part) to not make my unselfishness contingent on his (I mean, as long as he’s trying too!).
j — Just what I’ve always wanted — to be powerful in the realm of Man Laundry.
(because you know that millions of people google that very thing every second.)
Oh, and Becky — I wanted to say that I have ruined more clothes than my husband. Somehow he gets lucky, even when he uses really hot water with a rainbow of bright colors. We’re working on it.
And Rixa — I did read a study somewhere that men living alone do spend much less time on housework than women living alone. But then you add in the fact that your spouse knows how important it is to you, and it becomes a gauge of whether or not he respects what you care about.
Ah ha! A winky! Much better than a smiley! Am I still bad if I will do laundry without being asked, but I prefer to only fold my underwear and give her hers to fold herself?
Oh my gosh, Natasha! I just went to your site tonight (before reading your comment here) and thought “I need to link this to Jane’s blog!” It’s more of the same, that we as women open up about ourselves and realize we’re not alone, but I also like how you were saying a lot of what I was saying in my comments here.
And Jane, when you clarify that you’ve already asked multiple times and hubby still isn’t doing what you need done, I do think that’s a diff. story.
I was commenting off the idea of us as women wanting our man to figure out what we want (i.e. read our moody minds), and to *want* to be the one who thinks it up and does it on their own. The whole psychology of that bugs me, where the girl is hurt/offended that the guy didn’t do something that seemed so obvious to her, so he sees she’s upset and says “What’s wrong?,” and she starts playing “the game” with him. “What? You don’t know what’s wrong?” So he tries a diff. approach. “I’m sorry, honey. I messed up.” But he can’t tell her what he did wrong, because he had no idea. So then she pouts and feels even more hurt. “Well, if you don’t even know what you did wrong, I’m not going to tell you!” When she finally tells him “I want you to walk in the house and see what needs to be done and just start doing it instead of me nagging you ten times,” he says, “Ok. No problem. I’ll go do those things right now. Which things did you want me to do first?” But she gets upset again that he can’t read her mind, and that he didn’t think to do it on his own, and she acts the martyr now and says, “Well, it’s ruined now anyway. It wouldn’t mean the same because I had to tell you to do it.”
I just hate mind games, and my hubby is grateful I don’t play them. Now that I think about it, your post really wasn’t saying anything about mind games and the pouty martyr woman. I also am against women wanting guys to be sensitive and nurturing and clued in, when they’re just not. Most of them aren’t built that way. We are. So I believe in telling them exactly what we need. Then they can run off with their caveman mentality and provide for us.
But I still say that I’m satisfied my hubby does dishes and laundry and other things without acting like he’s “helping out” with “my” work, but as a partner. I don’t feel the need that he has to like it. ; ) I certainly don’t like housework.
Anyway, update on my mom. I call her today to see how she’s doing, and in my dad’s defense, it turns out she never asked him for that blessing, but when she was coughing and sick this morning at 2 am and went out to the couch so she wouldn’t keep him up, he came out to her and asked if she wanted a blessing. On his own. Without her even telling him that I said to ask for one.
Awwwwwwwe. Major points to my dad this morning.
Oh. And p.s.–I still get mad at my man, too. Just not over the things pointed out in this post. I get SO mad at him, ‘cuz we both see each other at our worst, and disagree about lots of little details, sometimes even just how to spend President’s day (he gets it off, and does NOT want to go to the beach, and I want to play the martyr about what a good memory it will be for our kids even if he doesn’t want to go).
Kimberly — Yes, good points.
So, my husband is fantastic, BUT.
He asked a week ago if I wanted anything for Valentine’s Day, and I said that I’d like a new handmixer because mine finally gave up the ghost the other week. So on Saturday he says, (after I give him a big box of chocolates — he’s like a little kid with the chocolates), “Do you really want a handmixer?” And I say yes. He says, “So should I really go get you a handmixer from Walmart?” (bec. the stores are a good 20 minutes away, not that that stops me from doing the shopping.) And I explain how I don’t want to buy appliances from Walmart anymore, because they get the models with inferior parts when they insist on paying suppliers so little, and then I remind him that there’s a Target in the same shopping complex as the Walmart. AND YES I WANT A HANDMIXER FOR VALENTINE’S DAY.
And since all it takes is for a man to just be MADE AWARE of our needs, are you surprised that I did not get anything — no card, no flowers, no candy, and NO HANDMIXER for Valentine’s Day? No date, no dinner, no nothing. (We did take the kids to a cheap Mexican place and the dollar theater on Friday night, so maybe that counts).
Oh, and Valentine’s Day is the (11th) anniversary of our first ever date, so naturally it’s a really special holiday for us. (I’d put in a smiley face right there, but honestly — why is one of the “good” guys so completely clueless? Sometimes I’d do anything for an empty, commercialized gesture.)
(And I’m glad to hear your mom is doing better — at least I assume she is.)
(Oh, and I also made Dick molten lava cakes for V day.)
Jane, your blog rocks! And it makes my tomorrow-afternoon* fun when you post on the blog or tweet about stuff. And you’re right about the connections on the internet – I’ve felt more connected to you and some other bloggers/tweeters than I did to any mother at the mother’s group I went to for 5-6 months before going back to work. My introverted side didn’t work well in that environment, and Matilda was only little, so she wasn’t yet charming everyone.
And I must sympathise – no handmixer for Valentine’s day, even when you’d requested it. That’s gotta be worse than getting a vaccuum cleaner you didn’t want.
(I also know how you feel about nagging. It’s been almost three months since the house flooded, and our insurance company was ready to pay us the $12k for our damaged goods in early Jan. But my beloved wants to keep the piano, not write it off and have it carted away. So, he needs to get a quote to repair it and a quote to replace it. For the past six weeks … )
* Because it’s almost always tomorrow down here.
Jane,
I have so many thoughts today I dont know where to start. I agree on the Andrea Yates thing…I have been without the past several weeks…first without electricity and then without phone lines…either way makes for lack of internet and I am losing whatever is left of my shallow mind.
I read the article and I must say I dont get that furious with husband. I cant really since he is rarely here, but I get absolutely furious with 5 year old who dumps huge rubbermaid of legos and then whines for 3 hours that its tooo hard to pick up. Then dont dump the %^&$%^*$^ things.
As for valentines, like Christmas, mothers day any other holiday, birthday etc…
I called hubby and reminded him to get valentines and mail them…do you know even with me on the phone telling him he needed to get 4 he couldnt figure out the 4th one was for me…he got one for each of the boys and says….”who needs the 4th one….?????”
hello do you want to be married another valentines day???
I knew I wasnt getting mister sensitive, and i love that he is mr responsible but OMG would it kill him to just SIGN a CARD????
steff
First of all, you are my favorite person today because you commented on my post that hasn’t had a single comment since the 3-4 days it’s been up. Thank you thank you thank you! And it was even an intelligent comment (though I absolutely love comments that say “Great!” or “Thanks for sharing” as well, don’t get me wrong!).
Ok, now that you’ve explained the valentine situation in detail, um, I have one thing to say to your husband. He needs to buy you this cake:
http://cakewrecks.blogspot.com/2008/06/way-all-apologies-should-be-made.html
No offense to your husband, as you’ve already pointed out he’s wonderful in lots of ways, but he blew it big time. If I was that specific to my husband and he didn’t follow through, I mean, c’mon! You spelled it out for him! If valentine’s day is important to you, he should do something for you. Especially if you spell out what you want.
I got this laptop last year for valentine’s day. Well, I asked for one, and it was in February, so I said it could be my valentine gift. And I LOVE it! I usually tell my hubby NOT to get me flowers, because the price is so jacked up. It’s when he takes out the garbage and makes me breakfast that feel he’s most romantic. But I do ask for flowers later, when the price comes back down.
“Sometimes I’d do anything for an empty, commercialized gesture.”
By the way, Bwaaaahaaahaaaahaaaa!!!!! I *loved* this comment, as did my husband. I’m not big on the empty commercialized gestures, but they are nice.
“why is one of the ‘good’ guys so completely clueless?”
Gratefully, I feel like I have one of the “good” guys as well. Even more gratefully, he has a monologue he loves to share, that he shared when we were dating, so I would understand just how difficult it is for guys to catch hints or be clued in on things.
His monologue starts, “Why are guys so dumb?!?” He then goes on to explain:
“Girls are taught from tiny munchkinhood to be women. How to dress themselves, to brush their hair, to look cute, to take care of their dollies and dress them up, how to make crafty things, etc.
On the other hand, what do you do with little boys? You give them a ball and kick them out in the back yard. The reason you do this is because if boys really did know anything, they would be dangerous. So by the time they get to dating age, girls are fully educated on how to make themselves look gorgeous and attractive, and the boys have no idea what attractive even *is*.
So girl dolls herself up, tries to attract a guy, and the guys say to each other, ‘What’s she doing?’ ‘I don’t know. Wanna go get a burger?’ They leave her there in full desirability. Because they’re stupid.
So, 90% of the boys in the world grow up this way. Boys need to learn in late adolescence or even adulthood how to affirm and validate the woman’s efforts.”
But after all this monologue(which he just repeated to me and I typed verbatim), he adds, “But if this husband still missed it after being told point-blank, that’s unusual even for a guy.”
But, now, Kimberly speaking again, it proves to me even moreso that sometimes boys are just clueless!
I am not a writer. You are a great writer. I come here to read the things that I would write about being a wife and a mother if I could write. You make me laugh, you make me cry, you touch my heart. Period.
So, Tom got me the DSLR camera I’ve been wanting for months, today. I need to do our taxes and see if we can really afford it, but the gesture was pretty grand.
[...] .05 seconds of fame in the Mad at Dad saga is on ABCNews and MSNBC, and the Corvallis Gazette Times, among other news outlets, but it’s [...]
I was just about to quote the awesome last few sentences of this post on twitter, when I realized that I had closed your blog. This was a problem because I had *just* found you from a link that @mooshinindy tweeted and I hadn’t committed your blog name to memory yet. “Seagull something… Seagull landing??” How was I going to find you again in order to give you proper attribution??
That’s when it hit me.
Google Man Laundry!
You’re #1 now.
Shannon Reply:
January 26th, 2011 at 9:10 am
Too bad being #1 for Man Laundry doesn’t come with a winning lottery ticket — or a foolproof way to make kids ENJOY doing chores.
Don’t you love @mooshinindy?