Finding out that someone you like and admire is pro-choice or pro-life is like finding out that they enjoy kicking puppies or like to lock their daughters in the basement.
It’s surprising and unsettling to discover that a friend does not agree with you on something so fundamental as the right to choose or the right to life. McCain’s choice of the very pro-life Sarah Palin has brought these passionate feelings about abortion to the surface (again). And it’s made me rethink my own stance.
I’ve always been a “pro-life with extreme exceptions” kind of person. That’s what my church advocates,* as reiterated in a recent article by one of our apostles. I’ve always thought that, since we can’t seem to agree when “life” begins (or even how we should define “life”), that our intention toward life (or potential life) is what matters. That God judges us on our actions and our intentions.
This theory of intention toward life was strengthened when I miscarried five years ago. At the time I struggled with the question of whether my 11-week-old embryo/fetus was actually a child of mine who had died, or a biological mistake (as the doctors described it) that my body had corrected.
I came to the conclusion that I had not lost a child, but rather experienced a common occurrence of nature taking its course. For a while I wondered what that meant for my beliefs about abortion. (If I had not lost a child, was there ever a “life” in my womb?)
The difference between abortion and miscarriage is clear, though: intent. My intention toward the life/potential life I carried was the same whether it was actually a child or a misformed mass of cells. I felt that my intention was what mattered, since I had no way of knowing if there had actually been a life there. And so I continued on in my “pro-life with extreme exceptions” philosophy.
But lately I’ve been wondering about those exceptions (health of the mother and rape/incest). Sarah Palin was the first politician I’d been aware of who is pro-life with fewer exceptions than me.
The longer I thought about the exceptions, the more conflicted I felt. If we make exceptions, if we say that it is okay to end a pregnancy if the physical health of the mother is in danger, or if we say that abortion in cases of rape/incest is okay if the mental health of the mother is in danger, doesn’t that imply (or declare) that whatever life or potential life is in the womb is of less value (less existence) than the life of the mother? That the mother is more of a human being than the embryo fetus, because preserving her life is more important?
Then how do we evaluate women who are not raped, but who might seek abortions for their mental health?
Remember Andrea Yates? When her story first hit, I had no children, and I was quick to condemn her as a monster. Then I had kids, and I thought about her sometimes. Once you’ve experienced the dragging fatigue of caring for a newborn, you develop empathy for a woman who must have felt completely overwhelmed by the demands of her five children and tortured by her post-partum psychosis.
If abortion in case of danger to the mental health of the mother is justified in extreme cases, then perhaps Andrea Yates’ case is worthy of even more sympathy and excuse.
I find myself torn. The exceptions bother me. If I accept them, then it’s harder to see why abortions in certain other cases are not also justifiable. (Abortion as a means of primary birth control is not embraced by anyone, as far as I can tell. From a feminist or world-health perspective, women (and men) should insist on condom use to slow the spread of STDs, even beyond the prevention of pregnancy).
If I reject the exceptions as not valuing the life of the embryo/fetus enough, then I would be even more pro-life than Sarah Palin (and my church, incidentally).
I am sure of a couple things. First, that I probably won’t be a one-issue voter any time soon. And second, that a woman should have the right to choose whether she is pro-life or pro-choice without worrying that other women will label her “anti-woman.”
As women who have given birth or who contemplate giving birth, we have a unique perspective on bringing life into the world — what it costs us physically, mentally, emotionally, financially. And we know the joy it brings us, the compensation of having small children who run to us for kisses better and a hug to block out the world.
And — pro-choice or pro-life, most of us are pro-woman.
Jane
*All of these thoughts are my own, obviously; I’ve shared what I interpret my church’s stand to be, but any mistakes are my own.
Tags: abortion, andrea yates, miscarriage, motherhood, pro-choice, pro-life, sarah palin
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I’d admire your honesty and authenticity on all sides of this very difficult, divisive issue. I am anti-abortion and strongly pro-choice because I just can not make that decision for another woman.
the mama bird diariess last blog post..is joe the plumber on facebook?
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Excellent post.
I personally believe in a woman’s right to choose. Your post is probably one of the first ones I’ve ever read from someone on this very touchy, divisive subject that resonates with me completely – and you and I are supposedly on opposite sides of the spectrum. I’m torn too. I don’t know what to think often too. I don’t know where the line is drawn either. Which makes me wonder if the two sides are really as far apart as we think they are.
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How do you feel about capital punishment? That’s another case where one person’s life is valued less than others’–good of the one vs. good of the many, etc.
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http://www.surprisedbytruth.com/Letter_from_a_Young_Nun.pdf
I’ve always been pro-life with the rape/incest caveat, but then I read the above letter from a nun who was raped and gave up her vocation because she felt the need to raise the child she’d been “blessed” (wow! what a way to view it!) with. I’m not Catholic, but am very moved by this story, especially the last page.
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You’ve done a very good job of articulating a very difficult topic. My own views on abortion have evolved over time, from rabidly pro-choice to the polar opposite. I think every life has value and purpose. That said, I can not imagine a woman carrying a child conceived in rape or incest to term. THAT said, I can’t imaginethat child not having as much vale as another. . . And so I go round and round inside my head. . .
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This is a marvelous post, Jane. I’ve always though of myself as pro-choice, but it’s not that simple. As you wrote, it never is. I wish there weren’t any more abortions. I want abortions to be safe, legal, and rare–and I agree with the recent apostles admonishments.
Now that I’ve had children I understand, even more complexly, the nuances and deep feelings that come when you carry a child. I want abortions to be safe and legal for the very exceptions you listed, and we need to do all in our power to give women and families the ability to control their reproduction whenever possible–without having to use abortion. That being said, I would hope that none of my children, or my sisters, ever aborted a child.
Argh. So complicated.
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I sort of see abortion as a church/state issue. I think it should be legal, and we should let the individual’s fate be in their own hands, and let God be the judge as he inevitably is.
Memarie Lanes last blog post..Dear People in Charge of Distributing our 700Bil…
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Excellent post!
I think that the “right to choose” is a key phrase here. In my philosophy, we fought a war for that right. And if a woman (with a man, of course, why don’t we ever talk about them?) chooses to place herself in a position where she might get pregnant, then she has exercised that right. We will all have to face the consequences of our actions, if not in this life then in the next.
On the other hand, in cases of rape/incest, the woman has been deprived of the right to choose. Some people do still choose to carry a child conceived in that manner to term, and some even choose to keep it, but they didn’t make a choice that could result in pregnancy in the first place.
Mother’s health, of course, is still a sticky issue. Perhaps it has to do with the fact that endangering one’s health is not normally an expected side effect of pregnancy, so in becoming pregnant the mother wasn’t making the choice to risk her life for a child. Unless, of course, the mother knew in advance that it might be dangerous because of a preexisting condition.
However, I know that in our society today, if we changed the law to make exceptions for rape, incest and mother’s health, we’d suddenly have a lot more babies that “endangered” mothers’ health or were the result of “rapes” (because could we possibly say that the father has to be convicted of rape for the mother to be able to claim rape?).
As you’ve pointed out, even with fairly clear-cut guidelines, it’s still a murky issue.
Jordans last blog post..Blog Action Day: Fighting poverty with education
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That should be “if we changed the law to outlaw abortion with exceptions for rape, incest and mother’s health”
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Very good post – you’re brave to even tackle this subject.
It’s interesting that you posted about this; just last night, Knute and I were discussing/wondering what the real statistics are of abortions that are done third trimester in order to literally save the mother’s life.
Anyone have a linky on that?
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I read some interesting statistics a few years ago regarding the American hierarchy of exceptions to anti-abortion sentiment. Among those polled who believed that abortion should generally be illegal, a high percentage believed that rape/incest would be grounds for a legal abortion. A smaller percentage responded that there should be an exception for when the mother’s health was in danger. I think this is very intriguing and suggests that the underlying issue is not solely about valuing one person’s life over another, but about holding a person responsible for the consequences of her actions. In a rape or incest case, the woman has been forced to surrender control over her body, but in a case where the woman’s physical health is in danger, that is simply a risk of getting pregnant. However, as you’ve already mentioned, the conceived children are (and under any theoretical approach, must be) equally valued.
Carolinas last blog post..Palin’ in Comparison
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I think the trouble is that there is a moral take on abortion (i.e., I personally would not do it except for some of those exceptional circumstances) and then the political/legal question. I really dislike that we’ve been boxed into two really simplistic camps. I don’t really agree with either pro-life or pro-choice ideologies. While my moral leanings coincide with the Church’s teachings, I don’t think that means that politically you have to embrace the “pro-life” camp at all. That’s an entirely different issue–deciding whether or not the state or federal government should regulate, protect, or prohibit abortion. I also think the the 2 abortion “sides” are a distraction from some of the more pressing issues behind unwanted pregnancies: social disparity, pressures on females to prove their love to a man through sex, social teachings about sexuality, educational levels, poverty, etc…I’d rather focus my energy on addressing why we have unplanned/unwanted pregnancies in the first place, rather than on the narrow issue of “women’s choice vs fetal rights.”
Rixas last blog post..A word of advice
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I am definately pro-life and pretty bold with my thoughts on abortion. In my opinion, all circumstances where the mother’s life is not at risk, there is no need to abort when you can place that baby for adoption. For the mother, abortion and adoption both lead to the same result of you not raising the child that you created. So what holds people up from going the adoption route?
Even in “mental health” circumstances, I wonder if having an abortion is really going to help, or is it just a quick fix that does not consider the long term consequences. That person could just as well suffer the same mental consequences from the guilt or regret they may feel from having an abortion.
I saw my baby’s heartbeat at 6 weeks,miscarried at 14 weeks and the little body that was removed in my surgery was definately real. There is no doubt in my mind that there was definately life in there. I know I place a different value on the worth of a fetus or baby than most people do. As someone who has spent years of fertility treatments trying to get pregnant and over $30,000 on adoption expenses this year, I value a baby as the most precious thing ever created, thus my boldness in my statements. For me, I just feel like, if you don’t want your baby, give it to me, or another woman like me that would cherish that little person forever, don’t kill it.
I did a research paper on this topic a few months ago and found this video…check it out….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2l1-kvKomg
danielles last blog post..The Best Toy Ever….
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I noticed that you didn’t bring up when the fetus has no chance at survival outside the womb. There is also the choice to have a medical induction when the condition is “incompatible with life”. Surprisingly, this choice can also be taken away. When I was in the hospital delivering Evie, one of the ICU nurses told me about a time when the right to medically induce was temporarily taken away by the Utah Legislature. She said she saw so much suffering that it made her very angry. Should women be forced to carry a child to term that has no chance of survival? Do you know what that can do to her mentally and physically? What it does to a family? I know that medical inductions are not the same as abortions but I also know there are people out there who would disagree with me. I think if I am honest, I want the choice to be there. Do I want people to use abortions as birth control? No, that would be crazy but the issue is so complex and personal to me that I almost feel badly for talking about it on a blog comment.
Sheas last blog post..Crockpot
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I read my comment and I don’t want to make it sound like everyone who is carrying a child with a terminal condition should choose to medically induce. It is a very personal decision. I’ve talked to many women who chose to carry to term and said it was something they are so glad they did. I’ve talked to women who chose to induce and they talk about how spiritual it was and how they are glad they made that choice. I just want the choice to be there. I’ve had 4 miscarriages, a baby born at 20 weeks and will not be able to have more children. Have I had days where I thought “why doesn’t that woman who is choosing to abort just give her baby to me?” but It is not that simple. That woman wouldn’t give her baby to me. I just don’t believe it works like that. Umm now I’m just rambling. Sorry.
Sheas last blog post..Crockpot
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Very thought provoking post. I’m glad you brought up Andrea Yates. I was definitely in the minority at the time for feeling great compassion and sadness for her. I’ve experienced post-pardum four times and although I’ve never been in the dark place she was, I definitely could empathize for her situation. Empathize, not excuse. I’m glad she’s getting the help she needs.
As to a prior comment about the death penalty, I use to be all for capital punishment until DNA and other advancements started shedding light on cases where the jury got the verdict wrong and convicted an innocent person. It made me start to wonder how many people this country had killed who may have been innocent. The number may not be very high, but I think we need to err on the side of caution and allow death row inmates to live out their life in prison.
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Your post is very well written and makes points I had never considered. Thank you for your wonderful insights.
Rebeccas last blog post..A Trip to the Carousel
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A mother’s life cannot be “valued” more than her child’s, but what about the other children she already has (if there are others)? Wouldn’t it be irresponsible for a mother of several to endanger her own life out of a useless sense of martyrdom? (And as a mother of many, I’m probably not as empathetic as I should be about mental stresses of parenting–I don’t accept stress as an excuse for a health-related abortion.) By the way, just how many health-related abortions are there in this country anyway? Seems like a mostly rhetorical argument to me. (Actually, I do know of at least 2 such abortions–and aren’t ectopic pregnancies typically ended [nowadays] by abortion?)
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wow…a friend and i were just talking about this the other day. i don’t agree with the person who said what is the difference between abortion and adoption the end result is still that the mother doesnt raise the child…yes that is part of the end result but there is much more to it.
My belief is that I want it to be safe and legal for those who choose it…do I want them to randomly choose abortion? of course not…
could I choose it myself…absolutely no way in h*ll
but that does not give me the right or the freedom to impose my views on someone else.
I think it does speak to the overall state of our world that unwanted pregnancies are on the rise…someone spoke of the right to choose being made when they went to bed with someone but lets face it there are an awful lot of teens out there who dont make that choice with anything near clarity of understanding what could come in the aftermath… so many think sex means love and that a baby means they will have unconditional love without understanding the work, the stress, the joy and pain that are all involved.’
Steff
Steffj89s last blog post..
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What an excellent and well thought out post.
I find it very disturbing that here in England there seems to be a new generation of girls who are very much of the belief that abortion is a form of contraception. Abortion is a form of contraception – that phrase upsets me so much. Did these girls not have mothers who cared enough to explain these issues to them?
There is also a generation of women who, I suspect, could end up mourning those babies
Tara@From Dawn Till Rusks last blog post..The business of blogging: Happy ever after?
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I’ve always been pro-choice. The way I see it, if the baby can’t survive outside of my body, then it’s part of my body. I don’t want the government to tell me what I can and cannot do with my body. That could lead to them telling me I have to give up one of my kidneys because I’m a match and the person will die without it.
Once the government is allowed to tell anyone what they can do to their own bodies, it opens up a huge can of worms.
Laura Moncurs last blog post..Sexy Skeleton Dress
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Thanks for all the comments. I want to esp. thank you all for responding so calmly — it’s obvious that we can discuss this issue with empathy and understanding, and that is encouraging in itself.
I want to address a few things: capital punishment, personal choice v. choosing for others, rarity of exceptions, and adoption.
Capital punishment. I think there are two issues:
1) Can we execute when we cannot be 100% sure a person deserves it?
2) Should we execute if we are sure they deserve it?
Until we have more confidence in our legal system, I think we can‘t execute, and this kind of leads to answering the underlying question of whether the state should make decisions like this. Perhaps we should leave the final judgment to someone who does know whether or not a person “deserves” it.
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Personal choice v. Choosing for others
This argument is starting to bother me. I hear it in varying degrees of emphasis/intention, but this is what it sounds like sometimes:
“Of course I would never, ever have an abortion myself, but I am fair and tolerant of others, so I must allow other women to do something that, of course, I would never, ever do myself.”
It’s a little bit condescending.
And it reminds me of the studies people have done (I read about it in Freakonomics), where people answer that “of course they would vote for a black man” but when asked about their neighbors “oh, well, they probably wouldn’t vote for a black man.” And, unsurprisingly, Neighbor A would but thinks neighbor B wouldn’t and Neighbor B repays the favor.
What’s the rationale behind thinking that something is wrong for yourself (abortion/racism/?) but okay (or inevitable) for someone else? Is it holding yourself to a higher standard? Thinking “I’m more careful/responsible/rational” than other women/people?
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Rarity of Exceptions
I’m sure (and hope) that the exceptions are rare cases — hopeful, because all of the possible exceptions include some sort of personal tragedy and heart-breaking decision-making for the people involved.
However, the fact that any exception, ever, exists, bothers me. Even phrasing it as a mother “martyring” herself for the unborn child at the expense of her own life and the care of her other children is bothersome to me. If a mother jumped in front of a car and pushed her 5 yo out of the way, dying in her 5 yo’s place, would we call that martyrdom? (or heroism?) And if we would treat that scenario differently, isn’t that further evidence that a 5 yo is more of a “person” than a fetus/embryo?
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Adoption as the best alternative to Abortion
It’s easy for me to get pregnant. Dick looks at me, and boom! I’m pregnant. I can’t imagine how hard it must be to struggle with infertility and adoptions, etc.
At the same time, it seems a bit heartless to me to tell a woman whose physical or mental health are in danger (I’m reducing the exceptions to this bec. that seemed to me to be what Elder Nelson was getting at) that she should have the baby because another woman would welcome it. We have to care for the woman as much as the baby!
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Jane, I’m not too bothered by women saying that they would never have an abortion but that they believe others should have the choice. For the most part, this is simply a recognition that abortion is not the ideal route and that some people currently have resources that others do not have (access to affordable birth control, supportive families, enough money to hire someone to help care for a baby, insurance that will cover your child’s severe health problems, etc.). But all of those resources can disappear just like that, and suddenly you are the single, practically homeless, financially destitute, disowned and dishonored, drug-addicted, 17-year old mother-to-be. I’ll bet that some of the women that would have not had an abortion in a more privileged life would consider it, even if only for a second, in another scenario. In some sense, pro-choice advocates just want to keep an option open–an escape route that doesn’t involve suicide or back-alley crochet-hook abortions or mental breakdowns or abandoned children.
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Hey Jane.
To your comment “it seems a bit heartless to me to tell a woman whose physical or mental health are in danger that she should have the baby because another woman would welcome it.”
Im sorry if this is how my comment came across to you. I think that you misread what I had written. I said in all other cases, except for when the mother’s health is at risk, adoption should be an better choice. I do not think at all that if a mother life were at risk that she should continue with the pregnany. In all other cases, where the mother will be fine, I just don’t understand the reasoning of why they choose abortion over adoption.
I meant my comment as more of awareness that there are three options instead of two. It shouldn’t be “hey im pregnant, do I have an abortion or keep the baby?” There are other options out there, like adoption, that are usually not brought into these types of conversations and I think it is sad.
As to Steffj89′s comment, “i don’t agree with the person who said what is the difference between abortion and adoption the end result is still that the mother doesnt raise the child…yes that is part of the end result but there is much more to”
I understand what you are saying as I was generalizing the end result, and I am aware that there is more to it, but I guess my point really was that if there is question in someones mind about the moral ramifications to abortion, but doesn’t want the baby, they can go the adoption route. I didn’t meant it as rude as it did sound. Either choice, abortion or adoption have more to it. There is a lifelong sense of loss either way you choose. So in my opinion, why not choose adoption is all I wanted to get across. It is a viable option and shouldn’t be left out of the choices.
Anyway, it is a personal decision for everyone, and I don’t see abortions ever being illegal with the politics involved. Of course it is better to have safe abortions than illegal ones. But I can do my part to raise awareness for adoption and hope that one less person chooses abortion because they realized that adoption is another option for them.
danielles last blog post..Hanging Out With Liam
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I haven’t read all the comments so someone might have said this but I have a thought about your comment regarding a mother’s mental health. The difference in my mind between your examples (rape/incest vs. someone else whose mental health might be challenged by having a baby) is that you didn’t chose to be the victim of rape/incest. If you are having sex, you made a choice to have sex, knowing that you might still get pregnant–birth control or not.
The truly consistant positions are: no abortions ever, abortions for anyone that wants it. Or, if you believe that God has said there are specific exceptions, then you are consistant with what He says.
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Ah, I see now (after reading the comments) that it has in fact been brought up.
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I too see appreciate that people have been objective and empathetic; this is a touchy topic to tackle (alliteration not intended).
I’m a little confused which saying is pro baby and which one is pro the mom choosing, I’m assuming pro-life is for baby, and pro-choice is for the choice option?
I am pro-life (meaning against abortion) and agree that when you choose intimacy, you choose the possible consequences, including pregnancy, and to “choose” to end that life is to take away that unborn fetus’s chance or “choice” to be born.
But you also still bring up some really good points, good food for thought, especially the tricky one about mom’s health vs. baby.
But as for the church’s stance, the one thing that touched me about their exceptions (i.e. rape, incest, health of mom) was that there’s a caveat in there that EVEN THEN, the possibility of abortion is meant to be carefully weighed, considered, prayed about, and decided through inspiration. The church doesn’t just say, cut and dry, yes to abortion in these more rare cases.
Kimberlys last blog post..Nathanism
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Carolina — Good point. One thing. This hypothetical girl-woman who would be making this choice that you (or I or “one”) would never make — each of the descriptors you assigned her seem to me to be factors that would make her (possibly) not the best equipped or prepared to make such a decision. If it would be a hard decision for us (as blessed by circumstances as we are), how much harder a decision for her?
Danielle — thanks for clarifying your comment. I think what I objected to most in your initial comment was where you said something about the mother “creating” the baby, which I don’t see as a valid description of the mother’s action in a case of rape/incest. For me, I can imagine how traumatic it would be to actually have inside you the “creation” of a monster who had raped you — so to say that adoption is the logical choice there is to simplify, perhaps.
For a woman who wouldn’t normally consider abortion, a woman who does want children of her own, how would it be to be faced with a rape-pregnancy? Might some of those women wish to keep their babies?
But, overall, you’re absolutely right that adoption is a very good option.
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I agre thanks for clarifying your point danielle…
jane….when i said its something i could never do…my reasoning is this…the only thing i ever wanted from life was to be a wife and a mom…i cannot even consider not having my babe in “normal” circumstances.
there are mental health issues where i dont think its fair to say that becoming pregnant was part of a choice…when i was first going thru depression in my early 20s one of the ways i acted out was to be very self destructive in a lot of my thinking and there were a lot of times i said yes because i didnt think i was worthy enough to say no… i may have intellectually known the consequences but believe me i did not emotionally or rationally make any decision for about 3 years before i got to a point someone saw the depth of my depression and helped me get help
I guess the way I see it it just isnt cut and dried. There are no 1000% black and whites with it….
steff
Steffj89s last blog post..
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You put your thoughts very well as to not alienate any one side…Thank you for that. I agree with what your first commenter said…I too am Anit-abortion Pro-choice. I think of the late 60′s early 70′s when women were going to less than respectable “drs” to terminate a pregnacy they could not continue…A lot of women died…I don’t want to say what is right or wrong for any woman when I do not walk in her shoes… I think of my dear daughter…if God forbid anything happened to her, that I want her to have a choice that is leagal and protected and that works for her…not what I want, but what is right for her.
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I’ve thought a lot about this since you posted Jane. I also read Freakonomics the other week, and that has given me some interesting thoughts on this issue and the social results of unwanted pregnancies. One of our states recently had a vote to de-criminalise abortion, and it was heartening to know that there were many hours of debate and discussion in the state government before a decision was made.
I have been pro-choice since I was a teenager and even before we were shown a non-early-term abortion in religion class at school in 9th grade (Catholic). I can imagine myself being in a situation where I might choose to have (or would have had) an abortion. I can’t necessarily define the boundaries within which I would make such a choice for me, and hope that is unlikely I would ever be faced with such a decision (my only child thus far was very much planned, wanted, and easy to conceive). If I were to ever decide to have an abortion, then I would answer to God for that when the time came.
When I was younger, I was potentially faced with an unplanned pregnancy thanks to contraceptive failure. My then boyfriend (a minister’s son no less) had a rather quick turnaround from his previous assurances that were I to ever get pregnant, he would marry me, to becoming completely freaked out at the potential consequences of our actions and marriage suddenly not being on the agenda (not that I would have necessarily agreed to being married just because I was pregnant – my parents divorced when I was 2, so married parents don’t always mean happy parents and happy child for me). As it turned out, no pregnancy resulted from that situation, and within a year or so he moved away and we broke up.
If I were to ever face such a choice, I would want to have access to a safe and non-criminal abortion. And then lots of counselling.
After having a pregnancy I chose and loved, where I was generally carefully about every morsel that went into my mouth and worked out, and even tried to go gluten-free for the last month to make labour ‘easier’ (ha), I can imagine that even if someone were to carry a pregnancy to term to be able to adopt that child out, they might not take the best of care of themselves, and therefore the baby.
This is a very tricky issue. A million shades of grey.
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[...] she asks me about abortion, I’ll tell her to go read my post and then pray about it for [...]
What a thought provoking post! I am pro-choice, and definitely pro-women!
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