Thanks for the wikipedia link. I was most struck by the stuff about her husband John.

“In November 2007, CNN reported that her family’s situation has been made more difficult as, due to memory loss, her husband has formed new personal attachments in the institution where he now lives while not fully recalling his life-long family connections.[6] On Sunday, November 18, 2007, New York Times reported in an article titled Seized by Alzheimer’s, Then Love,[7] that she is relieved to see her husband of 55 years so content.”

How difficult that must be!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandra_Day_O'Connor

Beth — I enjoyed both your comments. Thanks. I agree that we should make our own choices, and not have to justify them. Explaining them, on the other hand, maybe isn’t so bad, and some day, especially, I’ll want to tell my own daughters what worked about what I did, and why I felt it was so important to make the choices I did make.

Julia — I emailed you, but let me repeat: You are NOT a bad mom. Again. Together, now.

Susana — Thanks for the compliment. I like to think that my views are a little more even-handed because I’ve experienced the medicated, hospital births, and only later realized that I could have possibly made some other choices.

I really admire my UC friends because I see them taking the time to be more educated and informed about birth than I did. Which is not to say that everyone who gives birth in the hospital just goes along with the conventional wisdom, but that IS what I did, and I’m ashamed of that.

Brock — Yes, we’ll disagree. I do agree with you to a point on the baby not caring, though I think the baby might care if the pitocin or other induction technique put it in fetal distress, which can happen. Again, causality impossible to assign when a medical intervention is what begins birth.

Your analogy of the seatbelt is problematic. If c-sections were like seatbelts, then you’d have to say that every woman should have a c-section at 40 weeks, just in case. Is that what you think should happen?

We could also remove all appendices at . . . what, 5? Wisdom teeth? Spleens? We could do hysterectomies or mammectomies(?) to play it safe with cancer.

I’m not sure that life should only be about risk reduction. I hear what you’re saying, and especially if you know these unprepared people, I can see that that would be incredibly trying.

But I think there are UC’ers and midwife-homebirthers, and natural birthers, etc, who truly want the best experience for themselves AND their babies.

I’ve bugged Rixa about this before, though, that I don’t have the time, interest, or inclination to get my PhD in unassisted childbirth, and that’s the kind of study I’d have to undertake before I felt comfortable doing something like that.

If I’m not willing to become an expert on childbirth, then I certainly want a third-party expert there. But I think I will always regret that I did more research and preparation for, say, what kind of car to buy than I did for how I should give birth.

And also, I believe that women can become experts on childbirth through apprenticing themselves to midwives and working as doulas and reading A LOT and attending births, etc. That’s what my friend did, and she spent four years doing it. I don’t think you could possibly call her selfish for dedicating so much time to something that is, after all, not a pathology, but rather a good, normal, natural function of the female body.

You are a very good writer. I am especially appreciating your counter points to the comments left by Brad & Brock.

Great debate, particularly from someone who’d likely not uc herself. Your open-mindedness and ability to support others in their choices is laudable.

I have an IRL friend who supports homebirth even though she would NEVER choose that for herself. She even joined me in calling the governor of our state to encourage him to pass a bill in support of direct entry midwives.

It is almost funny that your mere mention of uc sparked a debate of sorts. While at church, I once mentioned that I had felt guided by God to give birth at home. Even though I was merely sharing my own experience, a woman got all fired-up and declared that she would have died at home.

She even went so far as to say that no unnecessary cesareans have ever been performed as doctors are guided by God and that women don’t even need to study about childbirth because their doctors have their best interest at heart. (I thought she was about the only person in the world who felt this way. Brad’s comment has proven that she ‘s not.)

As a woman who has birthed at home 5 times, 4 times unassisted, I have learned that childbirth is indeed polarizing!

As for the rest of your post… It is so nice for me to meet another mother who admits she isn’t a saint, who’s been known to throw a tantrum and who realizes that even though she may not be the best mom, being home with her children is still the best thing for them.

Nice to meet you.

Susana Baig

(P.S. I am trying not to envy your ability to earn some income through feelance writing. I was just checking out Elance the other night, wondering if I could ever get work that way. Do you have a degree?)

I love that “feminism” gets mixed up with whether you decide to work or not and whether you decide to make your husband change a few diapers or not. (I know that is a simple way of putting it, but some discussions I’ve seen get down to the nitty gritty…if you wash your husband’s laundry you are so obviously not a feminist)

I think you are a right on about choice. It all comes down to choice and if a woman (or man) is free to make the decision that they want and feel good about then I feel like you are embracing your feminism and not succumbing to the world of the dominating evil man.

I “choose” to work in some ways because I like to get out of the house and I like what I do. I would love to be at home with my boy, but we really do need the money right now and with my situation, we are set up. Am I a bad mom? Yes. Am I living in the 1800s because I would like to stay home? probably…Is it anyone else’s business what I do? Nope.

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Secondly, childbirth options are VERY personal. My first child was born a month premature and unable to breath. Nothing is more frightening than seeing your newborn angel come out blue. If I had not been in a hospital I think she would have died, or had some serious brain damage. After that experience I could not be comfortable in any other environment. Not to mention that I started having children at 36 – when the chances of there being problems is greater. If I were 25, healthy, with no signs of pre-term labor I might feel differently about it, but for me there is no choice. BUT that is ME – and my choice is not necessarily the choice for others.

There is no RIGHT or WRONG choice. It makes me sad that I feel this enormous pressure to have to justify to everybody and anyone why I chose to have my kids born in a hospital, why I choose to vaccinate them and why I didn’t breastfeed. I have VERY valid and VERY personal reasons for all of those choices and frankly I shouldn’t have to defend them.

Beths last blog post..A Mom By Any Other Name

I too get irritated when people who call for choice only really support choices that are the same as their own, especially when they intimate that people who choose paths other than theirs are less intelligent.

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However, I do feel that she did imply (I thought it was pretty explicit) that that boils down to working inside and outside of the home as close to the same number of hours as possible.

Also, I didn’t call working outside the home parenting, I said “providing monetarily” for children is an aspect of parenting, and I think it is.

One part of this that I ended up cutting was about where Marc (the husband in the first couple) described stay-at-home dads as being “as vulnerable as stay-at-home moms.” This also relates to the very real problem you address about men being slouches.

They might be unknowing slouches, or trapped-by-gender-bias slouches, but basically slouches when it comes to contributing equally, and probably this does come from some sense of “I put the food on the table, you do the rest,” which I would not put up with for 5 seconds.

My advice on that whole thing: don’t marry a jerk like that. A man who will not work with a woman to make their family life as good and fulfilling for all involved as possible is not worth the time of day. (And if he has no idea how to do this, maybe some counseling is called for).

If a woman has a man that she is not willing (eager) to feel vulnerable to: emotionally, physically, financially, he’s probably not a good match for her.

I’m glad that you and your husband have structured your family in such a way that works well for you. I have to admit that when both parents work full-time, I am in awe that anyone has time and energy for parenting.

Sometimes I really think it is energy, more than intelligence/opportunity/raw talent that divides the Do’ers and the Couch-sitters. Maybe if I upped from Mountain Dew to Red Bull or something . . .

I’m not having any luck responding there on your blog, but it’s just as well–I get so worked up on those two topics (working mothers and natural births) that my unsent comments would be way, way too long. So, the short and sweet of it is–Amen and Amen.

Sandra Day O’Connor could be the patron saint of stay-at-home mothers, since she stayed at home ’til her 3 children were in school. Somehow I don’t think her career suffered any (and think about what it would cost to hire a lawyer like that to babysit your preschoolers)! She’s my hero(ine).

From one who is way too soon old and way too late smart, remember that the young years will be over in an eyeblink. What a waste of time to be anywhere but home (keeping body and soul together is necessary, I know, so we won’t argue necessary exceptions).

Carolinas last blog post..To My Cousins in Mongolia

I actually loved the recent NYT article, “When Mom and Dad Share it All.” I love the concept of equal parenting. I don’t know that the author would have defined it quite the way you seem to, though. I don’t think the author was advocating that parents work equal number of hours outside of the home and work equal number of hours as caregivers (even though the first couple described did just that). Rather, the article suggested that parental duties (and rights?) should not be divided merely along gender stereotypical lines and for no other reason. Many of the couples described in the article were striving for equal time and equal duties (that was their desire), but stereotypes and outside expectations got in the way. I think that was what the author was highlighting. There are some (I would say very few) biologically mandated duty/right divisions–pregnancy, breastfeeding, etc. But there are many that are not. Cooking for the children, bathing the children, finding play-dates for the children, taking the children to the doctor, rocking children, being “in charge” of the children (without a need to resort to a list), etc., are not biologically mandated (in my very humble but nonetheless outspoken opinion).

I am so grateful that women have all the opportunities and choices that they do–I feel a deep sense of gratitude for the sacrifices that many women have made to ensure that I would have opportunities. In fact, I often fight feelings of obligation and pressure–I have to constantly remind myself that I need to do what is best for me and my family, not what is best for the feminist movement (if there is such a thing these days–are we on the third wave?), which is a type of stereotype pressure of its own, which I think the author would shake her head at. But I am very disappointed in the fact that little has changed for men. Men still have very little of the parenting duties/rights, even if both parents are working. Men simply have not been able break into what has historically been woman’s work. The statistical trend that formed the basis of book The Second Shift still largely holds true today. (I’m so impressed by your friends who manage to share equally when the income earner gets home from work).

But let’s assume that “equal parenting” really does mean equal time and equal duties. I think it’s a worthwhile goal where feasible. I really do. In our society, it often makes sense for one person to work full-time. That way, the person is more likely to advance more quickly in his/her career, thereby creating more opportunities for greater income. Also, the family enjoys from certain benefits that are usually only accorded to full-time employees. Because the average full-time job requires that the income-earner be away from home during the day, the other spouse is the primary caregiver. The resulting full-time salary is just enough to support the family. Fine. It works. I have no argument. But what if both spouses are lucky (or planned it from the very beginning) and can find jobs that are temporally flexible enough, highly-paid enough, desirable enough, etc., that they both can (and want to) work outside the home? Wouldn’t it be great that neither spouse would have to feel the burden of being sole provider? And wouldn’t it be great if both spouses could equally make the sacrifices and enjoy the pleasures of parenting their children?

I take issue with calling working outside of the home parenting and equating it to what the primary care-giver does. I think you suggest that because many parents work in less-than-desirable jobs to put food on the table for their children, it is parenting. This line of thought suggests that working for any reason other than to put food on the table wouldn’t be parenting. In fact, it might be neglectful parenting. This undermines and undervalues the myriad of reasons someone might work outside of the home (whether for money or not), including humanitarian reasons, obligation to pass on a rare and necessary skill, personal fulfillment, personal recreation, desire to effect change in society, etc. I know many men and women that work outside of the home (some without pay) for these other reasons. I don’t think they view their work as parenting, even if it is a sacrifice. But neither are they completely abandoning their role as parents.

A parent is always a parent, regardless of where he/she is or what he/she does. However, while a parent is away from home, he/she is not responsible for the day-to-day care of and raising of children. The reality is that a stay-at-home mom generally does the vast majority of this. As a consequence, and lamentably, I believe (my only proof is from my own observations) that mothers are often more attached to their children and more in-tune with their children’s needs than are the fathers. I think this is a real loss to our society and to our familial well-being. A lot of family-focused programs (church and otherwise) help compensate for this inequality of attachment and parenting duties/rights. But we still have a long way to go.

Lest anyone think that I am secretly staging an offensive against working mothers, please note that I work full time, as does my husband. I just don’t view my work or my husband’s work outside of the home as “parenting.” (Oh, and neither am I saying that all families need to be set up like mine. In fact, I expect that my family’s structure will change and ebb and flow as we raise our children, depending on the work opportunities available, etc.)

Carolinas last blog post..To My Cousins in Mongolia

I cannot agree that every c-section is medically necessary (which is not to say that a woman should not be allowed an elective one, if that is her choice).

If that is what they teach you at medical school, that “if a doctor did it, then it SHOULD have been done,” then I think your education is a tad one-sided. Not to mention riddled with logical fallacies.

Also, I don’t know how you can say “doctors are indoctrinated to do as little as possible” with a straight face. What about elective cosmetic surgery?

Also, I (and UC’ers) never said anything about boycotting available medical treatment. UC is about avoiding unnecessary medical intervention. Not the same thing. Of course it would be selfish for someone to not have surgery if that were needed to ensure safety. No one is advocating that. (that I know of, anyway).

Marie — I don’t know why the original article didn’t even consider that a man (in the traditional role) working to support his family should be considered one aspect of “parenting.” In the author’s eyes, working seems to be the self-fulfilling realization of hopes and dreams, not the putting-the-food-on-the-table that it is for most people.

Brock — I hear you. As I said, when I first heard about UC, I was aghast. But now I learn that many countries (including Britain) are much more supportive of homebirths and midwives than the U.S., and that a big part of the U.S.’s reticence is not a desire to make the birth the best possible experience for mother and baby. Instead, money and litigation play a huge role.

I cannot recommend Rixa’s blog highly enough. One thing that stays with me (even after my own highly medicated birth experiences) is that too often when someone says “I would have died” or “My wife/sister/daughter/mother” would have died without medical intervention, there was a first medical intervention, usually an induction, which got the whole process rolling, so it’s impossible to determine causality.

No one, not even the staunchest of UC’ers would say that hospitals and well-trained doctors are not necessary in some cases, and that all women should be aware of when/what those cases are. The point is that birth could be much better, much more natural than it usually is. Thirty+% of births should not be resulting in major abdominal surgery.

I gave birth as I did because I didn’t approach it as I have almost every other experience in my life. In no other area have I so blindly acceded to the dictates of a third party. Why did I do so when it came to one of the most defining moments of womanhood, and how could that secession of maternal choice and deliberation make me a good modern lady?

Also, I think “selfish” is a very poor choice of words. The UC’ers I have met (mostly online) are just as concerned about the health and good experience of their babies as are the women who schedule inductions for someone’s (their own, their doctor’s, their parents who have tickets already to fly back home and the stubborn baby has not come yet (See Sally)) convenience.

Beth — I’m excited to see what you have to say.

Tracey — Sometimes I think I will regret these years. I regret the time spent agonizing over not doing enough or not somehow doing it all. But I would rather regret that than regret a lifetime of meetings. I get my fill of that on The Office.

Andrea — What you say about single parents is so, so true. I have no idea how they do it, and my heart and brain are in awe.