basc4tlet…

since I think that you did the best job in the whole world raising your kids, I always want to hear your advice.

so when I read what you wrote about not choosing how your kids spend their time, I was confused. If i don’t choose how my kids spend their time, they will just waste it playing on the computer. I need them to play outside, play with friends, read, read, read… and it seems like if I don’t make them do these things they just dont do them. So what exactly did you mean by not choosing what they do with their time?

Of course, it may be too late now, but it would probably benefit Stephen if you didn’t let him watch so much TV. I’m joking here a bit, because I don’t know if one adult lets another adult do or not do anything. But there is always talking and persuading….

sylwia

I loved The Breakup trailer, especially that line. But I saw the movie and it was painful. It was a little too close to home to the complaints that some women have about the men in their lives (like how they sometimes don’t see what needs to be done around the house and sit around while the wife is working). The trailer is funny; the movie is not (to me).

I liked what Adrianne wrote about thresholds. I’ve heard that men in general–if they live on their own–have messier houses than women in general. Perhaps cleanliness (and order in the household) is just more important to women. And that really gets under my skin, but like Nancy said, we just need to help our spouses see what we value and treat them in a way that they will want to please us by working toward what we value.

I was a very good girl, even as a teenager, I never rebelled or did anything bad. I was a band geek and an Honors student. But I did the good things because they were what pleased ME, and because I was a very good Christian and wanted to please GOD. On the other hand, the thought of making my mom happy made me cringe. I put it down to what teenage angst I did manage to achieve, that the thought of making my mother happy made me want to vomit. I specifically avoided doing such things.

Now that I’m an adult, of course I don’t want to see my mom unhappy, but it still isn’t my goal to please her. In fact the only people I’m interested in pleasing are my kids (I know, I should want to please Brad too ).

I also want my kids to WANT to have clena rooms and such. But the truth is, I also want a clean room, but no matter how much I want that, that isn’t always enough motivation to actually get the job done. However, my mother-in-law is coming this weekend, and THAT has got me busy I can assure you!

And YES, YES, YES! I think the goal of the Gospel is to change our very natures so that what we naturally gravitate to is the Lord’s way of doing things. And we grow towards that by practicing doing what someone we trust or our covenants require of us.

i appreciate what you say, but personally, i hate that advice to praise excessively every little effort made by husbands and to never complain about how they do things for fear that they’ll stop doing them. it may be good, Christian advice, but if I take the stance that the mother is the leader in the home (for the reasons in my comment above), do we think our husbands are getting praised all day long for every little thing at work? and do their bosses never say that something needs to be done RIGHT instead of just done?

similarly, why should i have to remind my husband to do the chores that he selected as his own? does anyone remind me every day to feed the baby and do the dishes and take care of the kids? and does someone praise and thank me for all these things? on mother’s day, maybe. are women just naturally unneeding of praise/thanks/reminders and men are insecure/needy/forgetful? next we’ll be making sticker charts and treasure boxes for our husbands. it seems pretty insulting to me to say that husbands need the same help/reinforcement that i assume my 2 year old needs to potty train. aren’t men more evolved than 2 year olds?

Thanks for your comment. I have noticed what you’re talking about. If our outing is fishing or a movie, Tom is extremely motivated to get us moving. And since he is not a morning person, it also helps to start some outings like Busch Gardens in the afternoon (which is also better sun-wise). I have let myself fall into bad habits with church on-time-ness because Tom has mtgs and so that is all me.

With the kids (and spouse), I believe what you’re saying about teaching them how to do what they already want to do, but is it possible to also teach them to want better things? (clean-ish room, underwear instead of diapers, etc?). What I like about the gospel (at least my understanding of it) is that we can change not only our actions but our inclinations. Can we help our children change their own inclinations (because if not I will have a three year old in diapers soon?). I haven’t seen the movie The Breakup, but part of the trailer resonated with me — where Jennifer Aniston says that she wants her boyfriend to WANT to do the dishes. Is it manipulative to give rewards (stickers, privileges, etc) for good behavior?

Marcy and i have been discussing this. We applied the WWJD test. Would Jesus cheerfully do it all? What does it mean to be a leader? Leaders (in the LDS church anyway) are supposed to delegate, rather than “serving” all the time, right? And it seems like the leader in household matters is usually the mother, if only because she knows what needs to be done and how to do it.

I think maybe a big part of this is to thoughtfully plan ahead and teach, as you say. Teach why we want certain things done (clean house so it’s more peaceful, etc) and teach how to do that and then follow up in a delegation sort of model? As in so many things, it seems like a big investment time, thought, and energy-wise in the beginning will pay off in good habits (hopefully?).

First may be a problem with semantics. Psychologists will tell you that you can’t motivate someone else–others can only be motivated by their own sense of need or desire or whatever. Husbands and children are already motivated to get to church on time or clean the house or get ready for a trip IF IT’S IMPORTANT TO THEM. Otherwise, the motivation is really just to please you, and that depends on you letting them know in a kind and consistent manner just exactly what pleases you.

I’m telling you this from the point of view of someone who did not do this very well–I avoided telling my family members what pleased me (because in my naivete I thought that would be selfish of me) and then hoped they would figure it out and just do things because they loved me. My children now are very hard workers and good, good people (I feel very blessed to even be acquainted with them) but they are not particularly intuitive about helping without being asked. (When asked, they are absolutely super.)

Mothers (especially, but fathers also) need to know their family members well enough to understand what is important to them, and then they need to teach and show the children or spouse how to appropriately address those issues. Does your husband crave being to church on time? Then he should be receptive to suggestions for making it so. Do your children want to wear clean, pretty clothes? Then they should be taught how to accomplish that–by picking up and putting away. Children (and sometimes husbands, too) need to be taught HOW to do what they already WANT to do.

Once about 20 years ago (how the time flies!) I volunteered my family for a ward activity where we sang a song accompanied by puppets. We seemed like a natural act, with fun kids and lots of them, puppets, etc., but my kids openly rebelled and absolutely refused to participate, and my husband supported them! He had told me once before that he didn’t like me to choose how he spent his time, so I already knew better than to “make an appointment for him,” but he was adamant that I could not be choosing how our children spent their time either. We ultimately compromised on this one event: the whole family took part on the condition that I never did that again, and I never have.

That sad experience has kind of hobbled me in the “get your family to do things” department, but the one good thing I learned was to avoid trying to manipulate others. Teach them, urge them, persuade them, but do not manipulate. You don’t like being manipulated, and neither do they.

Um, my uncle was saying to me and his other nieces that we need to praise our husbands for everything they do. They really seem to need acnowledgement (I can’t spell). They’ll work for praise and won’t do things if they fear dissapointing you. If he forgot to pack diapers, it’s ok. (I keep extra in the car of wipes, diapers (they’re too small by now though), and toys etc). If company comes over and the undies are on the floor, Steven would squirm more than I would.

Honestly, I’m the one who needs motivation around my house. I take care of Dylan, but I sure let Steven help and make sure that I don’t complain when he’s doing something to help me out like if the diaper is on wrong or Dylan’s clothes don’t match. I figure if I complain – he’ll let me do it all. That’s when I’d loose it. Steven does laundry b/c I’m no good at it – oh crap – there’s something in the washer from this morning in fact. Oops.

A couple weeks ago my husband wasn’t helping me get our 3 kids ready for church. I kept yelling into the computer room for him to do various things as I raced around trying to get everything done. I was so upset about it that later on in the day that I realized I needed to get through to him about how he should be doing half the work. I decided that the next week I would just mimic him at home, taking my time to do stuff just for me and letting the kids run around wild. I thought it might take even being very late to church for him to realize that there’s no reason I should be doing all the reminding, gathering, dressing, etc.

A couple days later I talked to one of my favorite aunts and I told her my plan and asked her what she thought of it. She said she wouldn’t do it. Her suggestion was to instead make a list of everything that needs to be done before church (or list of daily/weekly chores or whatever) and then beforehand, in a nice conversation with hubby, ask him to choose which things on the list he will do to help get us out the door. Then DON’T back him up. If he doesn’t do his job then it goes undone and the consequences will do their job.

This sounds good to me and it’s what I’m going to try!

I’m always trying to find the perfect solution between nagging all the time and doing all the work myself.