In the BYU-based recurrent (cycles through every so many years) debate / complaining about their facial hair policy in light of Brigham Young’s beard, Spencer Kimball said that former prophets’ beards represented the difficulty in shaving back then, and that we have no such excuse now. Our hygeine and antibiotics and etc. seem to put circumscision in much different light than in Abraham’s day.

We just don’t undertand enough to make final judgements on things like circumcision, beards, sex and other relationship factors among immortals, and etc. I’m unconvinced that the Lord’s reasons for instituting cicumcision with Abraham was only due to hygeine or to mark the covenant, though I don’t really have other ideas as to why.

Isaiah, Alma, Paul, Shakespeare, and Joseph Smith all said words to this effect: “There is so much we don’t know!” Those passages always make me wonder, which is the awe that makes really good science fiction so enjoyable.

Meanwhile, I do enjoy this discussion.

how do you get your husband to take out the trash without having to remind him every day? as i tell Tom, he doesn’t have to remind me every day to take care of the kids. (luckily, he does to go to work without reminders )

Putting all of the medical reasons aside, I had my kids circumcised for convenience. Boys naturally have horrible hygine. I have to remind them to shower everyday, and I’m glad I don’t have to remind them to pull their foreskin back.

Boys also have a tendency to play with their private parts for no reason. They have to be reminded over and over again to not touch their penis. Being intact might just give them the excuse to do that in the shower. Best to avoid that as well.

And last but not least. Women who are married to intact men are more likely to get urinary tract infections. I think women suffer enough in childbirth and in other female related problems, so if there is anything we can do to decrease their chance of UTI, we might as well do it.

That’s why I wanted my boys circumcised. Not only for themselves, but to make life simpler for their mom when they are little, and for their wife when they are grown.

sylwia

good point. thanks for taking the time to lay it all out. interestingly, a lot (most? all?) of the people who are against circumcision are also against vaccination (and a lot of other mainstream medical practices), because of the rise in autism (said to be connected to vaccines, though it hasn’t been proven), among other things (vaccines aren’t natural, did you know?).

there was a tragic story recently (read the article ) about a 2 year old who was exposed to the small pox vaccine (to the variant of small pox that is the vaccine) through his military father, who had been vaccinated before his tour of duty. the boy was in critical condition and had to be treated with experimental drugs. the mother also contracted the disease.

this is extremely uncommon, but points out the fact that, unlike moral questions, matters of health and hygiene have pros and cons on both sides, and the consequences are not clear cut as they are in matters of morality. so my analogy was not a perfect match.

but i’m glad it made you (and me) think!

Now I do realize that it has been proven by science and logic that vaccinations SAVE LIVES, however I can’t help bring up the similarities between parents giving vaccinations and parents having their boy circumcised. Both are preventative measures proven to decrease risk of disease (how much for circumcision in question?), decrease problems in the future, and both are administered without the child’s conscious approval or choice. Wouldn’t any logical parent want to decrease any if not all health related risks of their infant child? (just think of all the precautions and paranoid care specifically for first time mothers?) If more problems are associated with “intact” males than circumcised males with respect to problems “down there” wouldn’t you want more reassurance for your infant son that they will have less of a risk?

Just some thoughts,
Ryan

you make it sound like how you get a pig’s or dog’s tail to fall off!

i know i said i hadn’t seen one, but i’m pretty sure there’s a sharp object and some blood involved.

wikipedia.org (i know, maybe not an unimpeachable source, but i find it very informative) says that it’s a surgical procedure, and lists possible complications.

in any case, your kid is too cute! and i hope his lip injury gets better soon. (injuries are how we know the kids are living life to the fullest, right?)

but, did you see that law and order episode about the “fraternal” twin girl and boy–turns out the girl was made into a girl after a botched circumcision. not a pretty sight. i think it was a CI one, no the one with maritska hargitay. dang, sometimes i do miss TV.

naturally, alden and emmett will be model children/men regardless!